Uroplatus sikorae WCs: Questions on quarantine

[BonnieLorraine]

I obtained 4 Uroplatus sikorae approximately a week and a half ago and currently have them in quarantine in 2 separate cages. Before I started them on meds (while trying to collect fecals for testing) they were eating roughly 8-14 medium crickets a night per cage, so 4-7 crickets per gecko. The vet had me start them on albon and panacur 6 days ago, and the vet tech said to do the panacur for 3-5 days and the albon for 7 days straight, but she also kept wondering why I was even treating the animals at all since most pet stores don't bother (they're from my friends reptile store, so he told us to use his account with the vet). I started them on the meds, and continuing with their daily showers, usually an hour long shower every day while I am bleaching out the cages. Their appetites were fine for the first 2 days on the meds, and then dropped to about 2-3 crickets per cage a night, so 1-2 crickets per gecko. I got them some probiotics to try and counteract the albon, dabbing it on their noses and letting them lick it off. but they still weren't eating much. I decided to split up the albon into two separate treatments, spaced 3 days apart, to try to give their digestive systems some chance to recover. I stopped the meds 2 days ago, and they're now up to 5 and 4 crickets per cage, but I'm worried about giving the second dose (I've also read I should do a second round of panacur before the next fecal check). They're currently not at all dehydrated, haven't lost weight, and are very active, am I just over worrying this or should I hold off on the next round until they've had a bit more chance to recover? I also found mites around their eye sockets while giving them meds, and treated them with a q tip and veggie oil, so that might have been an additional stressor. I know there are people on here pretty experienced with medicating these guys, so any advice would be great as these are my first uros, I used to be a cham and terrestrial gecko breeder. Thanks

 

[D.B.Johnson]

I personally think you're worrying too much about the number of crickets...It sounds to me like they are eating less crickets because you have been feeding them every day, and they aren't as hungry as they were. Of course, the meds probably haven't helped their appetite either. I wouldn't worry about the appetite of a gecko that is eating every single night.

As far as the fenbendazole/panacur goes, if memory serves...it is only effective against the young and adult stages of various worms. It doesn't kill eggs, and that is why it is recommended space treatments a week or two apart. I believe the idea is to kill the worms that hatch from the eggs before they lay more themselves. I would imagine your vet would know more about that than I do, though.

Enjoy your new geckos,
Doug

 

[BonnieLorraine]

Thank you Doug, I needed someone to tell me I was doing ok The vet told me to do 3-5 days of the panacur in a row, and that was it. I can see the value in doing it several days in a row, but decided to add in the once a week for several more weeks to make sure I kill any hatching eggs. I just got out the scale yesterday, and in the past week, the 28g girl has remained the same, the 21g girl gained 2 grams and is up to 23, the 26g girl lost one gram and is down to 25, and the male lost one gram and is down to 17, I'm going to guess mostly from the albon and loss of appetite. I just got 3 more yesterday, these were all from the same original group as mine, just put in a planted vivarium at the store and left untreated. I had been planning on acquiring a pair after mine were done with their treatment, but these didn't look like they were going to make it that long, and the males were in really poor shape which was why I got two. One of the males was so weak he could hardly move, so I forcefed him a bit of chicken baby food with vitamins and calcium while I was giving him his first dose of meds. For the new ones, the female is 23g and pretty feisty, but the boys are 10g and 11g. After a long shower, meds, and probiotics they did manage to eat 7 crickets between them and the males are looking quite a bit spunkier today, hopefully I can put some weight on them soon so their bones stop sticking out. In all I've had to deal with worms, coccidea, mites, a nose rub and abrasions on several from shipping, dehydration, and starvation, fun times right?

 

[jadrig]

As long as the geckos are eating they will be fine...just dont feed them too much, especially if they just came into the country. 1 or 2 crickets a night per gecko is fine...Make sure that none of the geckos are regurgitating their food. If one is not doing as well, isolate them so that you can monitor how much food they are eating. I know that albon isnt as harmful to geckos as it is to chameleons, but I, personally, would not put it in any of my geckos...panacur is not nearly as deadly, but I dont mess with meds. Even if the gecko was proven to have a heavy parasite load...iradicating the parasites would be #3 on the priority list behind staying hydrated and being fed.

 

[BonnieLorraine]

I've only had one regurgitate, and that was about 2 nights ago, he's kept everything down since. Any recommendations on how to prevent that? I've been using the probiotics dabbed on his nose daily but am not sure what else I can do.

 

[jadrig]

The regurgitation has to do with dehydration/coccidea...I believe. Their stomachs cannot stretch to accomidate the 'over feeding'. Just offer 1 prey item that is not too large...or several small prey items. This puts a lot less stress on the animals stomach. Also, give plenty of h20 with eyedropper. One drop on snout, and wait til they lick it off. The regurgitation occurs with all species of feshly imported Uroplatus...especially when TOO much food is given. I know it is hard to resist, especially when the come straight from the importer...these geckos are usually starving, but they dont know any better.

 

[BonnieLorraine]

They're pretty well hydrated, they get an hour long shower every day, plus 2-3 additional mistings. He only threw up one cricket, and usually only eats about one a night. I'm thinking maybe the albon killed off all the good gut bacteria and threw his system off? I've cut down on the food I'm putting in the females tank, those were the piggies out of the bunch, but no regurgs there yet.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Just checking in......

 

[BonnieLorraine]

I just took in a second batch of fecals this morning, and the vet came out and talked to me for about 20 mins on how to proceed from here (did I mention I love my vet). He said they still have parasites, I need to do the Panacur for longer, and I shouldn't have cut the Albon short. I'm to do 5 days of Panacur, give them a 2 week break, and then another 5 days of Panacur. For the Albon I'm supposed to do 7 days straight. The males I'm to continue force feeding, but he recommended I get Repti Aid from Flukers which I found at PetSmart, and do that daily until they're able to eat on their own. Oh, and keep up with the daily showers and cage bleachings. He also taught me an easier trick for getting them to open their mouths, you just cover their nostrils with your fingers (why didn't I ever think of this lol). So, it looks like we have a month longer of quarantine minimum, I'm just really hoping those two skinny males make it.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I just took in a second batch of fecals this morning, and the vet came out and talked to me for about 20 mins on how to proceed from here (did I mention I love my vet). He said they still have parasites, I need to do the Panacur for longer, and I shouldn't have cut the Albon short. I'm to do 5 days of Panacur, give them a 2 week break, and then another 5 days of Panacur. For the Albon I'm supposed to do 7 days straight. The males I'm to continue force feeding, but he recommended I get Repti Aid from Flukers which I found at PetSmart, and do that daily until they're able to eat on their own. Oh, and keep up with the daily showers and cage bleachings. He also taught me an easier trick for getting them to open their mouths, you just cover their nostrils with your fingers (why didn't I ever think of this lol). So, it looks like we have a month longer of quarantine minimum, I'm just really hoping those two skinny males make it.

BonnieLorraine ~

Thanks for sharing all these details! That is one thing I love about GU. Most people are more than willing to share all they know.

What strength bleach are you using? Are you still using the probiotics? Health foods store?

Best wishes for your geckos.

 

[BonnieLorraine]

I'm more than happy to share I've found out most of what I know by bugging breeders and other keepers over the past 10 years, plus this is a new genus for me, so I definitely need the help heh. I'm using 6% Sodium hypochlorite which seems to be the strongest they make for laundry use. The probiotics I've been doing whenever I've dosed meds along with the day after, I just dab a bit on their nose and let them lick it off. I've been using Bene-bac. I asked the vet about that too, he said his stance is it hasn't been proven to be beneficial, but as long as it's not hurting them or stressing them it doesn't hurt to try it, so to keep using it. For gut loading the crickets, roaches, and superworms I use a mix of unsalted nuts, wheat germ, brewers yeast, spirulina, kelp, bee pollen, rodent chow, rice cereal, and dried milk, all pureed in the food processor, there's a recipe posted for it on chameleon forums, and then I throw in whatever organic veggies I've bought for my rhino iggy that week. I saw that the Repti Aid has a lot of the same ingredients as my gut load, including the kelp and spirulina, so hopefully it helps.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I'm more than happy to share I've found out most of what I know by bugging breeders and other keepers over the past 10 years, plus this is a new genus for me, so I definitely need the help heh. I'm using 6% Sodium hypochlorite which seems to be the strongest they make for laundry use. The probiotics I've been doing whenever I've dosed meds along with the day after, I just dab a bit on their nose and let them lick it off. I've been using Bene-bac. I asked the vet about that too, he said his stance is it hasn't been proven to be beneficial, but as long as it's not hurting them or stressing them it doesn't hurt to try it, so to keep using it. For gut loading the crickets, roaches, and superworms I use a mix of unsalted nuts, wheat germ, brewers yeast, spirulina, kelp, bee pollen, rodent chow, rice cereal, and dried milk, all pureed in the food processor, there's a recipe posted for it on chameleon forums, and then I throw in whatever organic veggies I've bought for my rhino iggy that week. I saw that the Repti Aid has a lot of the same ingredients as my gut load, including the kelp and spirulina, so hopefully it helps.

I'm worried about treating some WC geckos I'm about to receive. Hence all these questions.

Please tell me more about the 6% sodium hypochlorite---that is the % in the Clorox I have: soaking the whole tank, just wiping it down, how are you doing it? Are you doing a 10% solution---9 parts water and 1 part sodium hypochlorite? The Bene-bac (capsule or liquid) probiotic. Source of both? Are you just force feeding the ReptiAid by itself?

I've got a Zilla product called JumpStart.

 

[BonnieLorraine]

I started out using old glass tanks for quarantine but I'm switching over to sterilite bins because they're easier to clean and lighter to carry, parasite eggs can also get stuck in the silicone in glass cages, making them harder to sterilize. I get the big $7 bins from the store, draw a square on top of the lid, use a drill to drill out the corners, and use a skil saw to cut the square out. Then just lightly sand about half an inch around the square, and hot glue gun a square of screen to the lid. For cage decorations it needs to be either bleachable or tossable, so I stick to white papertowels for the bottom, a water dish, those foam twisty vines made thicker by twisting around each other, and fake plants. I do a 1:10 ratio with the bleach, and fill the containers about a third of the way using the hose in the yard and shove all the cage decorations under the water line. The bottom is the dirtiest part given that's where the majority of the feces end up, but I still use a sponge to wipe down the sides with the bleach solution. Let it sit for at least a half hour, then thoroughly rinse and towel dry, and let it air dry until you can't smell the bleach anymore. This is also the time I give the geckos a shower, since they can't be in the cage for at least an hour. Get a large potted plant or fake plant in a pot (if real cover the soil with cellophane) and adjust the water so it's on the cool side since these guys overheat easily. I position the plant about half in the water, so they can move out of it if they want, and shut the bathroom door so the humidity builds up. It works wonders for dehydrated animals and was literally the difference between life and death for some of my chameleons. The Repti Aid is actually made to be a carnivore/insectivore complete diet replacement, so it has the right balance of carbs, proteins, fats, and vitamins. From what I can see online of the Jump Start the first ingredient is corn syrup, and then it has a bunch of vitamins, so I guess kind of like a vitamin sugar water for energy, it also doesn't seem to be diet specific since they recommend it for tortoises. I used to do chicken baby food mixed with some Repashy calcium and vitamin supplement, but the vet says the Repti Aid more closely mimics their normal diet and to switch to that. Hopefully you shouldn't need to force feed at all, I'm just having to do the ones that were at the pet store in a planted vivarium and weren't dosed with any meds, they're down to 10 and 11 grams and one is usually laying on the floor of the tank. Oh, one more thing, toss any paper towels that have feces on them as soon as you see it, and toss any left over prey items since they'll eat the infected feces and reinfect your pet.

 

[BonnieLorraine]

Oh, and the bleach I get from walmart, their store brand is just as strong as Clorox and a bit cheaper, the Bene-bac is sold at Petco and is a gel made for birds and reptiles, and the Repti Aid is from PetSmart, I didn't see any on the Petco website.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Many thanks, BonnieLorraine, even for taking the time to google JumpStart. I will get some ReptiAid and Bene-bac just in case. ReptiAid sounds like just the product I may need.

Looks to me like the JumpStart is intended to be used with another food source.

These geckos I'm about to get are Cyrtodactylus.

Recently bought 3 large and 2 small bendable, twisty Exo Terra Jungle Vines...the type which say "water-proof" right on the container. Those tolerate bleaching?

Very sorry to hear that your Uroplatus sikorae males are down to 10 and 11 grams. Lieing on the floor of the cage is not a promising thing.

 

[BonnieLorraine]

Oh no, my male is fine, these are ones from my friends store that were ailing and I'm attempting to fix (I'm going to keep one if they make it). He doesn't have the time or ability to medicate animals daily and bleach cages constantly, he tries to not get wc for that very reason, but then, he really likes Mossies. There seem to be two types of bendable vines, the ones that look like they're covered in cat litter (guessing it's supposed to look like dirt), and the foam painted ones. I wouldn't try the cat litter ones, they look like they would fall apart, but the foam ones are holding up fine, just let them air out well after. I'd also try to provide some cover, I stick to fake plants and vines from walmart (they're cheaper than the ones sold for reptiles and it most cases identical) but my vet also recommended paper towel tubes, toilet paper tubes, cardboard boxes, and egg crate, pretty much anything disposable that they can hide in.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Good to hear your male is fine. Best wishes with BOTH rescues.

My bendable jungle vines have a very rough texture which seems fairly substantial. They seem "heavier" than painted foam might be?

 

[jadrig]

If you are going to try to rescue those from the store...The most important thing for these geckos when they are not doing well is H2o with an eyedropper...humidity...not necessarily keeping them soaked, and food. If they are not eating on their own... babyfood with H20 works well. If the animal is sick...parasites should be the last thing to worry about. Treating these geckos for parasites should only be done if they are healthy animals.
I have mixed in fruit flies with babyfood so that they get some insect protein...