Another sad/advanced case of MBD, advice needed, please help me save him

[Saskia]

Hello to all, and thanks for taking the time to read, I really hope you can help me.

In Venezuela (my country) there are few gecko enthusiasts, I worked in a reptile park making shows and also colaborated with some TV shows and I got to know people in the field, I have had geckos for 9 years now, I breed (although I don´t sell my animals, I am not a comercial breeder), and have been fairly succesfull wit my animals, and many keepers have me as a reference, I can´t say I am famous but I definitely am known among the gecko hobbists..... having said this I must add there are NOT gecko veterinarians in my country, there are very few veterinarians that dare to treat snakes because the snake community is a bit wider, but none of them treats geckos more than a dog or cat vet would, I am constantly reading online, consulting this forum and as many online sources I can get, and also have read a few books in the matter, but this time I want to humbly ask for you guys with experience with MBD to help a gecko out.

Yesterday a vet friend called me and told me he was referring a patient to me (a leo) because he honestly didn´t know how to help it and his only solution would have been puting him down, si, today I received it...

To sume up his history, he is 8 months old and looks like a 2 month old (weighs 10 grames), he is not skinny, just very small, was kept in a big glass tank with newspaper as substrate, no heating what so ever, water dish, has never had calcium or vitamins, staple diet of mealworms, no cave to hide, just a couple of rocks to ¨climb¨, no humidity at all, when he got to me had so much stuck shed that he couldn´t open his eyes, or hear, both his eyes and ears wehe stuffed with old sheds, totally white with old skin all over his body, I believe he has MBD because his 4 legs are bent in a horrible position (and the owner never provided calcium), he can barely move around like crawling, his spine is a little twisted also, I have no idea of the sex... The first thing I did was arranging his enclosure, the newspaper was very filthy, I washed everything and changed to paper towel, put a couple of hides, heatpad, moist hide (he can´t use on his own because he can´t climb in top of it), etc and I gave him a warm soak to gently remove his skin, I managed to remove it from his face, his eyes look fairly good, also his ears, no weird bumps or anything.... I removed almost all the skin, He still has old skin in his legs and toes, it is very stuck there and since his bones are so fragile I am afraid if I pull too hard I might break a bone

I put a little calcium with D3 in front of his face and he immediately licked it and ate a bunch, after that he just laid in the warm hide, I have had him for a couple of hours now, I would like to know what would be the most effective way to treat it, besides providing calcium.... as you can see there is no vet I can go to, since it was the vet who ¨referred¨ it to me.... he told me that honestly he would have put him down because he is in such bad shape, but I have some hope that maybe I can save him..... I have been reading about this hideous disease and I haven´t found much regarding treatment, most people advise to take the animal to the vet, any insight or advise you guys can give me will be highly appreciated!!!! This little guy broke my heart, I wanted to punch the owner, a stupid kid with money, he told me he bought 4 but this was the only ¨survivor¨ , and that he also bought a python, and it also died I really hope you can give me some advise here, my main questions are:

• What is the adequate amount of calcium I can provide daily??
• Should I try to get him to eat?? And If so, what would be the best feeder??
• About the old skin in his legs, should I try pulling it?? would I be risking breaking a bone there (his legs look the most fragile)? should I just leave it there until his bones are a little stronger?

Any insight will be much appreciated!!! Let´s all fight this #"&/(%"&/=? disease!! :fight:

THANKS

 

[Saskia]

Two pics: The first from the moment he got here, and the second after removing the old shed from his body, he is a Hypo Tangerine

 

[Yoshi'smom]

Wow Saskia! This is terrible. I'm pretty sure my heart just broke! I know that it's now in good hands with you. I'm not quite an authority on the subject, but I'll try to help out! In return I'll be expecting updates on this little one all the time!
I would try feeding it daily for the first few days with mealworms since you know it'll eat them. I would dust every otherday as well. Then in a few days I would see if he'll take a cricket or two. Dust them too. I wouldn't dust his feeders daily. I fear that he may overdose on the D3 quite easily...
About the old shed. I would give it a few days to settle in and then start warm soaks to try and get that shed off. Just make sure to be very gentle. He may not have any strength left in his bones, like you said.
Good luck! Hope I can help at all.

 

[Saskia]

Thanks Kelly,

Definitely help, wasn´t sure if I should feed him, but I guess I´ll try later when it´s darker and he feels more comfortable, right now he´s just sleeping in his warm cave, I can´t start to imagine the pain he must be going through, I am positive because he has a good attitude, all I want is for him to be better, if he eats tonight that will be awesome!! Fingers crossed!!

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Providing proper husbandry and minimal stress are your best place to start. There's no sense in trying to rush a recovery...nothing is going happen instantly or even quickly no matter what you do. Provide him with a proper set up including a nice humid hide that he can go into. Well gut loaded roaches are the most nutritious of the common feeders with crickets being next. No need to over do it with the calcium. The damage is already done and can't, at this point be "undone". He can however live a reasonably happy life. Just do as normal and dust the feeders as normal with calcium w/ D3 and provide a bowl of plain calcium as well. It looks like you got a lot of the funky shed off of him already. Soaking him will only cause more stress. Just let him use his humid hide and watch for the next shed. It should come fairly soon once he starts getting proper care. Proper temps, etc will be important. Otherwise, just leave him alone to acclimate and get healthy for a few months. Maximum husbandry, minimal stress.

 

[Saskia]

Excellent, thanks! I am not handling him unless it is absolutely neccesary, and I set his tank in a dark quiet corner in my bedroom, already did all the husbandry requirements, and the calcium is actually lying on the floor in several places in his tank (he can barely rise his head, so even a very shallow dish would be a little high for him), I made some little calcium mountains for him to lick off the floor, so, to sume up, there is not quite a ¨treatment¨ but instead I must correct the mistakes with his care and he will heal with time??

 

[Yoshi'smom]

I agree! Minimal stress! Let us know if he eats later. Keeping my fingers crossed for the little one!

 

[gizmo143]

wow, poor lil guy best of luck to you though. I am sure that he is thankful thank goodness that you got him out of there before that guy could cause him any more damage... keep us posted on his progress.

 

[Saskia]

OK, good morning everyone, updating here!
Last night I ofered a small earth roach, I smashed the roache´s head a bit and put it on it´s back, with it´s legs moving in the air and it caught the gecko´s attention (good sign), but even such an easy prey was to hard for him to catch, he did the ¨food look¨ they do when they see insects, and only moving his head he tried to reach for it, but since he can´t walk he couldn´t get it (even as I put right in front of his nose), he tried 2 times, and the roach got on his feet and walked away I tried the same way with no succes 2 more times, and then I offered the roach with tweezers but he was afraid of the tweezers and he didn´t even look at the roach, instead he tried to walk away, finally I gently grabed him, touched the side of his mouth with my fngers and when he opened I put the roach inside and he bit and swallowed, after that with a little (insulin) syringe I gave him 0,3 ccs of water with calcium, and left him alone, I imagime he hasn´t drunk water in some time so I gave him a little, I really didn´t want to asist feed him, but I wanted him to eat, he looks pretty much the same today, he didn´t vomit or anything, so I guess that´s good, at least he has a fat roach in his stomach, I checked him a couple times during the night and he was awake lying in the warm hide, with his little head out, I am sure he is feeling better just to have gotten rid of all that loose skin! The owner said he used to eat but lately he wasn´t, I am asuming he wasn´t because the shed was virtually covering both his eyes and ears with several layers, so, being nearly blind and deaf with sheds he probably couldn´t see the food, I am staying positive with him, hopefully he´ll eat on his own very soon, lyuckily his jaw bones loos like still had no damage, still keeping my fingers crossed, I know this recovery will be very slow, and he probably will never walk normal again but I will do my best for him to be as comfortable as possible! Thanks all for reading and replying, every reply, even just with encourage words are appreciated, all the good vibe for him!

 

[Yoshi'smom]

I'm glad he was able to at least eat (even with some assistance)! That makes me feel better! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him. Hoping for the best.

 

[Saskia]

Another update:
I have left him alone and he just lays on the warm side, is quite alert, his eyes follow movement, and also his head, but he rarely moves his body, yesterday I didn´t want to do anything to him, just let him rest, and today morning I gave him some calcium with D3 and fluids with an insulin syringe (am planing on doing that twice a day, 0.3 ccs in the morning and the same at night), I just put the tip of the syringe (just the plastic part) on the side of his mouth and he opens on his own (I don´t want to force-open his mouth, am afraid I could break a bone) I put the tip of the syringe inside and he drinks the calcium... I tried offering him another small roach but he showed no interest, I will try again tonight, and if he doesn´t eat it I might have to asist- feed him again, I hope he can eat on his own very soon, I don´t like feeling I am forcing him to eat

 

[Yoshi'smom]

Thanks for another update. I'm really hoping that he'll eat on his own soon! Poor guy.

 

[Saskia]

By the way, he hasn´t poo´d ??? I gave him the first roach the day before yesterday, and the tank is still clean, I doubt he is impacted because his previous owner kept him on newspaper, and there was nothing dangerous in the tank, but shouldn´t he have poo´d already?? I am concerned that his pelvis bones are weakened and he can´t push the poo out, could that happen????

 

[Yoshi'smom]

I would start worrying in a day or two... Also if he does poo, I'm sure it'll be very small. He's prolly going to suck out everything he can given his body is in such poor condition.

 

[Saskia]

Updating:

I have came up with a (very disgusting) system for treating him, every day I take one super worm and one roach, I cut their heads with scisors and then sqeeze te inside out, this is like a cream, I mix that with a few drops of water, calcium +D3 and herptivite, put that in a syringe and give him 0.3 ccs twice a day, I take him gently with a sock (I don´t want to hold him with my hands because I am afraid I could break a bone), and leave the head out, I start touching the sides of his mouth with the syringe until he opens, and then I squeeze the syringe, and then he swallows and I leave him alone.... I hope this is working... I am not seeing any progress so far...
By the way, he poo´d yesterday, small poo but normal looking! He still has attached skin to his feet, I am going to try with another warm soak today to see if I can get some of it out!

 

[Harley_Davidson]

Oh Saskia! My heart broke when I saw the first picture....poor little guy. With the old shed off already he looked so much better.

Keep up the awesome work! With your perseverence and love I am sure you will bring him as close to healthy as possible.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

It took a long time to get him to this poor state, and it's going to take a long time to recover. You're not likely to see progress in leaps and bounds. It's likely to be months, not days before he's really doing well.

 

[Saskia]

Yes, I was kind of wondering that, I mean, how long would it take for him to look better, I wish I could see him get better sooner but I understand it´ll take a while, my next goal is to get him to eat on his own, that would be a huge improvement! I really like him because he has a great attitude, his eyes look bright and wide open! I believe he is fighting it as well!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Saskia ~

Have not read the entire thread. Do you have a liquid calcium supplement called calcium glubionate? Could you order some from your local pharmacy?

Will check back this evening.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

I would be cautious giving calcium glubionate. Too much calcium can be just as bad as not enough. And in small, fairly delicate herps like geckos (especially one that's already stressed and ill), it's easy to over do it. More is not always better.