I know I know business is business, and someone has to breed these geckos, but is what these guys are doing wrong?
Got Geckos? A rare sight. - YouTube
Got Geckos? A rare sight. - YouTube
Is this wrong?
- Thread starter Geck-oh
- Start date
Saskia
New member
No, it´s actually impossible to meet every gecko´s needs, you can observe the enclosures are quite small, only one egg case as hiding place, and staple diet of mealworms, thst´s the part I don´t like about comercial breeding of any animal! when it get´s to this stage it´s all about the profit, I´d rather see 100 small scale breeders than just one of this big breeders, usually smaller scale breeders provide a better care for their animals
Homicidal_Hippie
New member
Its a gecko mill. Everyone has their own opinions, but in mine I think that breeders should keep their geckos as pets. I think its neglectful to keep the geckos from experiencing a more natural life. Its like being kept in a room all your life where only your most basic needs are met. Robing them of happiness.
It's been a really interesting discussion/debate in the past about racks vs. display glass enclosures. Some people feel strongly that a display enclosure is best because the gecko gets to interact with the owner and the environment and has more stimulation. Other people feel strongly that these geckos naturally prefer the safety of a hidden enclosure and thrive in racks. Some people who feel this way have reported seeing a change for the better in terms of weight gain, eating and level of calmness with leopard geckos kept in racks. I've heard enough evidence on both sides to conclude that either option is viable and it's the owner's preference.
There are people who make a living breeding and selling geckos. Many of these people have a lot of geckos and keep them in racks. I would consider a "gecko mill" to be a place where people indiscriminately breed geckos, don't care for them properly and sell too young or undernourished geckos to the unsuspecting public. This is not true of Garrick (who I have dealt with both as a customer and with Gecko Time). Garrick, and other larger-scale gecko breeders with good reputations run a high quality outfit, employ people to feed their geckos (they don't have to take care of all of them alone) and produce high quality, healthy geckos. I can understand why a person may prefer to buy their geckos from a smaller breeder who knows each gecko individually and that's fine, but I respectfully suggest that it's a good idea to have more information before jumping to conclusions and I've tried to provide some of those facts here.
Aliza
There are people who make a living breeding and selling geckos. Many of these people have a lot of geckos and keep them in racks. I would consider a "gecko mill" to be a place where people indiscriminately breed geckos, don't care for them properly and sell too young or undernourished geckos to the unsuspecting public. This is not true of Garrick (who I have dealt with both as a customer and with Gecko Time). Garrick, and other larger-scale gecko breeders with good reputations run a high quality outfit, employ people to feed their geckos (they don't have to take care of all of them alone) and produce high quality, healthy geckos. I can understand why a person may prefer to buy their geckos from a smaller breeder who knows each gecko individually and that's fine, but I respectfully suggest that it's a good idea to have more information before jumping to conclusions and I've tried to provide some of those facts here.
Aliza
Sporonicle
New member
People who make a living off of breeding geckos need to have a lot of them in order to make a profit, and since its full time they have a large amount of time to take care of them, but not enough to take care of them like pets. They do however, like Aliza said, make sure their geckos are healthy and strong.
@ Aliza. It has nothing to do with any information gathering or fact finding. I did not tarnish Garrick's reputation, nor did I even slander his company. I simply wondered if it was morally wrong to house an animal in the way that they do it. It is a matter of opinion not fact. In my opinion there is no possible way to properly care for hundreds of reptiles, this is my opinion and nothing more.
Theresaq93
New member
Leopard geckos can thrive in the most simplistic enclosures.
Saskia
New member
My opinion as well doesn´t regard the type of enclosure, I mean, I only have 11 geckos and none of them have naturalistic vivariums, they all live in a kind of rack I made, but all my geckos have from 11 to 20 gallons of space, proper and enough hiding places, and a varied diet, they live on paper towel and they have no decor what so ever, but in the video I could see that this geckos live in quite small enclosures, with just one hiding place and a staple diet of mealworms (all being said by him and shown in the video), and those are not the best conditions, I do not know this breeder and don´t want to refer to him particularly, I do not believe geckos "benefit" from contact with the owner, but definitively benefit from a nutricious varied diet, and a better enclosure, his animals sure do look quite healthy and high quality, but once again, it´s on every one´s personal opinion to choose to provide the best care possible, or to provide the mi minimum necessary care for them to stay healthy in order to get the greater profits from them
Theresaq93
New member
To keep a Leo healthy you need to provide the following;
- adequate space
- varied diet
- supplementation
- adequate heating/lighting
- cleanliness
- various hiding places
- temperature gradient (hot and cold)
- water (obviously)
- enrichment (simply through live food (hunting))
- peace (quietness, stress can occur if you hold too much and if there is too much noise)
Of course if you only have 1/2 Leos providing a wooden viv can be easily done but if your a full time breeder racks are the easiest option. In my opinion racks can be better than wooden/glass vivariums as they are more enclosed and secure. In conclusion as long as you provide all points above the type of enclosure is your choice.
- adequate space
- varied diet
- supplementation
- adequate heating/lighting
- cleanliness
- various hiding places
- temperature gradient (hot and cold)
- water (obviously)
- enrichment (simply through live food (hunting))
- peace (quietness, stress can occur if you hold too much and if there is too much noise)
Of course if you only have 1/2 Leos providing a wooden viv can be easily done but if your a full time breeder racks are the easiest option. In my opinion racks can be better than wooden/glass vivariums as they are more enclosed and secure. In conclusion as long as you provide all points above the type of enclosure is your choice.
alanamichelle66
New member
Gahhh I hate to say this but in my ideal world everyone would go to shelters or obtain pets from owners who don't want them anymore. There are so many neglected animals out there it's hard for me to understand sometimes why people keep breeding and breeding when there are millions in need of homes. But to say that is also unfair to breeders who do it out of love for the animals and as a hobby as oppsed to for profit. Also there would be no more cool morphs and breeds. Its a double edge sword! lol. But the best thing I can say is just stay away from the chain pet stores and if in search for a different morph or certain breed find a responsible breeder. Reptile shows are great for these. And also meeting cool nerdy herp lovers like myself 
Saskia
New member
Gahhh I hate to say this but in my ideal world everyone would go to shelters or obtain pets from owners who don't want them anymore. There are so many neglected animals out there it's hard for me to understand sometimes why people keep breeding and breeding when there are millions in need of homes. But to say that is also unfair to breeders who do it out of love for the animals and as a hobby as oppsed to for profit. Also there would be no more cool morphs and breeds. Its a double edge sword! lol. But the best thing I can say is just stay away from the chain pet stores and if in search for a different morph or certain breed find a responsible breeder. Reptile shows are great for these. And also meeting cool nerdy herp lovers like myself
Too bad I there isn´t a "Really like it a LOT" button to hit, I totally agree with this opinion, I stopped breeding exactly for that (and when I did breed I kept all the babies for myself), eventually I figured there are too many in need, why should I breed more?? and I apply that principle with all my animals, all my dogs are adopted, (two from a shelter and one directly from the streets) spayed and neutered, and I don´t breed my leos anymore, my collection has grown only with adopted/injured/neglected leos and I plan on continuing that way, honestly it makes me a little sad so many people are breeding because it only causes more neglected animals
alanamichelle66
New member
Too bad I there isn´t a "Really like it a LOT" button to hit, I totally agree with this opinion, I stopped breeding exactly for that (and when I did breed I kept all the babies for myself), eventually I figured there are too many in need, why should I breed more?? and I apply that principle with all my animals, all my dogs are adopted, (two from a shelter and one directly from the streets) spayed and neutered, and I don´t breed my leos anymore, my collection has grown only with adopted/injured/neglected leos and I plan on continuing that way, honestly it makes me a little sad so many people are breeding because it only causes more neglected animals
Awww I wish more people had this mindset! Another great place I've found a few of my animals is craigslist. So many people will buy a lizard for their kids or themselves and don't realize how much care they actually do and need and want rid of them. Usually at little or no cost. Theres so many unwanted pets out there in need of good loving homes that more people should be aware of instead of going to Pet Supplies Plus and spending money and supporting breeding for profit. Not to mention hardly any of these chain store employees know a thing about the care of these animals and the animals are in horrid conditions.... I could go on forever! Lol But thank you Saskia and the best thing we can we do is keep spreading the word. Anyone who has adopted a pet needs a pat on the back