Insect Hydration

knobfan

knobfan

New member
What a great read! I can't wait till you do a new post on dry food to insects as I've stopped feeding my dubia completely dry, (strictly fruits and veggies) and would like to know the effect like protein deficiency or something and such.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
WildWildMidwest ~

This is how I bred my Blaptica dubia:

ROACH CARE​

I breed Blaptica dubia in a ten gallon tank with 5 vertically positioned egg flats trimmed to be just a bit shorter than the height of the tank :). The above-mentioned food (All Purpose Poultry Feed, dry oatmeal, alfalfa hay; occasionally collard greens and carrots) can be kept in shallow lids to one side of the egg flats. For moisture I dampen a clean medium-size sponge and occasionally spray the flats. In a room which ranges from 67 F/19.5 C upwards, I keep a 40 watt bulb in a 10 inch diameter reflector dome directly over the screened tank and on 24/7.
 
thorrshamri

thorrshamri

Moderator/The French Viking Moderathorr
knobfan said:
What a great read! I can't wait till you do a new post on dry food to insects as I've stopped feeding my dubia completely dry, (strictly fruits and veggies) and would like to know the effect like protein deficiency or something and such.
Click to expand...
Simply put, many desert species in the wild mainly rely on prey items for their water intake. By offering insects which have not been properly hydrated before through their own food, the risks of dehydration are not negligible, and on the long run, even the kidneys are at risk- kidney failure in a gecko almost always means certain death. Once more, there is nothing like a varied diet for insects you then use as feeders for geckos. It is even much, much more important than offering several types of prey insects.
Hint: place the greens, fruit and veg for crickets, roaches...in a separate container inside the insects boxes. This will limitate the risks of a fruitfly invasion, something you don't want to see happening at home.
This is what I use for my insects, varying as much as possible:

GREENS (all having an excellent Ca/P ratio above 2-just avoid iceberg lettuce which is TOXIC)- choose organic ones whenever possible or else rinse off thoroughly under clear water several times to remove pesticides, chlorates and other stuff they use in agriculture:

-lamb's lettuce
-cabbage leaves (in reduced amounts though, green cabbage contains harmful oxalates if used too frequently)
-frisée salad (=curled lettuce)
-dandelion leaves and flowers when in season
-bean sprouts
-turnip leaves
-spinach leaves
-watercress
-parsley
-wheat germs (grown at home)
-cat's grass


As for fruit and veg- use them peeled:

-figs, oranges, papayas and mangos are particularly recommended since their Ca/P ratio is excellent as well
-apples
-carrots
-zucchinis
-pears
-anything else at the local supermarket or grocery except tomatoes (toxic)

-Tofu is also an excellent food for insects and Vegans alike :D

Note: I am only giving here sources of water for feeder insects. Part of their diet should be dry food (wheat bran, organic hay...)
 
MauricesExoticPets

MauricesExoticPets

New member
Tropical species are as dependent on biological hydration as the ones from arid areas possibly more so.

Insects convert food into mass very efficiently if access to hydration is there, this is what makes them economical for the home breeder.

As mentioned above, dehydration of your reptile because it regularly consumes dehydrated insects will cause serious problems if not death.

Maurice Pudlo
 
knobfan

knobfan

New member
I have no problems with insect dehydration as they get enough water and fruits and vegetables. I was actually referring to your gonnabe next topic on feeding dry foods to insects as I do not do this. My roaches are on a strict hydration diet and was wondering what they lack without given dry foods. Thanks for the info though, both of you
 
W

WildWildMidwest

New member
thorrshamri said:
GREENS (all having an excellent Ca/P ratio above 2-just avoid iceberg lettuce which is TOXIC)- choose organic ones whenever possible or else rinse off thoroughly under clear water several times to remove pesticides, chlorates and other stuff they use in agriculture....

-anything else at the local supermarket or grocery except tomatoes (toxic)

-Tofu is also an excellent food for insects and Vegans alike :D

Note: I am only giving here sources of water for feeder insects. Part of their diet should be dry food (wheat bran, organic hay...)
Click to expand...

Hevré, this is the first I have seen about iceberg lettuce being toxic for geckos. I read about tomato toxicity but it might have been in another one of your posts. Iceberg lettuce is not an issue in our household since we never buy it, but we grow tomatoes and usually have thousands to spare by summer's end. Are you sure we can't safely put tomatoes in our roach colony? (I expect they would need to be removed daily.)

Tofu is an interesting idea. Fresh tofu isn't always available where we live and it is expensive. Our supermarkets carry horrible stuff in cardboard boxes labeled "tofu" but I'd rather eat the box than its contents. Real tofu comes in plastic containers with water and a short expiration date. Do you use soft or firm tofu?

For organic straw, do your roaches eat it or just derive moisture as from a sponge?
 
MauricesExoticPets

MauricesExoticPets

New member
Iceberg lettuce is one of those anti nutrient foods that require more calories to digest that they provide, as for toxicity I have no data showing that to be the case. As a source of hydration I could see it as having some value, but not as much as say carrots or any other fruit you may have access to.

Tomatoes are a funny food item that for the longest time were considered poisonous even to humans, yet we love them today. They are highly acidic and many insects simply do not like them regardless of their nutritional value.

I would suggest if possible, planting a variety of squash, carrots, and legumes in place of some tomatoes, all of which are good on your own dinner plate as well as to feed to the insects. Legumes in particular are high in protein and fix nitrogen in the soil which can help improve the production of crops planted in their location the following season, especially if you decide to recycle the feeder insect waste into that location as well.

Maurice Pudlo
 
W

WildWildMidwest

New member
Elizabeth Freer said:
WildWildMidwest ~

This is how I bred my Blaptica dubia:

ROACH CARE​

I breed Blaptica dubia in a ten gallon tank with 5 vertically positioned egg flats trimmed to be just a bit shorter than the height of the tank :). The above-mentioned food (All Purpose Poultry Feed, dry oatmeal, alfalfa hay; occasionally collard greens and carrots) can be kept in shallow lids to one side of the egg flats. For moisture I dampen a clean medium-size sponge and occasionally spray the flats. In a room which ranges from 67 F/19.5 C upwards, I keep a 40 watt bulb in a 10 inch diameter reflector dome directly over the screened tank and on 24/7.
Click to expand...

Elizabeth, I do everything the same as you except I use a 66 quart Sterilite container with an Ultratherm UTH and no lightbulb (too drying, fire hazard). I prefer the vertical height of Sterilite containers which accommodate full size vertical egg-flats, and I'd rather not risk dubias possibly crawling up the silicon corners of an aquarium. I've found adult dubias hanging upside down from the screen in the center of my Sterilite lid more than once — not sure how they got up there — so I have a healthy skepticism about dubias being unable to climb/jump/fly. I look at the lid underside every time before putting it down. I am not aware of any actual escapes from the colony so far, but I am very careful at all times. I don't trust pet sitters or children with roaches.

Hevré, I don't peel carrots since the skins slow the drying out. I slice carrots thickly and put them in a plastic tray... manna for roaches.

Has anybody used onions or garlic in their colony? I am thinking about items that sometimes get neglected in the refrigerator too long. Old pumpkin or squash is another idea for colony hydration in autumn.
 
W

WildWildMidwest

New member
Maurice, we grow a variety of squash and cucumbers in the summer. Zucchinis arrive in excess numbers, and they seem to double in size overnight. Zucchinis become woody if they aren't picked quickly enough but I doubt the roaches would mind. Many's the time we returned from a weekend getaway to find Zucchinis approaching small watermelon size.

I wonder about corncobs in late summer. They probably aren't too nutritious, but corncobs hold moisture well. Legumes are an excellent idea. Same for snow peas and green beans. I need to get my seedlings started soon.
 
MauricesExoticPets

MauricesExoticPets

New member
If you do the non-GMO corn its fine, some forms of GMO corn have been reported to negatively effect reproductive capacity of livestock and I prefer to not test that on my own critters.

Winter squashes are a bit better nutritionally speaking but obviously aren't going in the ground this early, legumes are really really a good idea, << mild hint.

Maurice Pudlo

I keep roses for not just the niceness of having them, but the flower petals are also great for feeding to the insects, and any herbivorous reptiles you might happen to own.
 
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W

WildWildMidwest

New member
Rose petals — wow, I would not have thought of that. I've heard of adding rose petals as a salad garnish but never as roach food. Your little darlings must be feeling the love! :blushing:

(I appreciate you mentioned home-grown organic roses. Commercially grown roses would likely poison your geckos with all the pesticides/preservatives used.)
 
thorrshamri

thorrshamri

Moderator/The French Viking Moderathorr
WildWildMidwest said:
Hevré, this is the first I have seen about iceberg lettuce being toxic for geckos. I read about tomato toxicity but it might have been in another one of your posts. Iceberg lettuce is not an issue in our household since we never buy it, but we grow tomatoes and usually have thousands to spare by summer's end. Are you sure we can't safely put tomatoes in our roach colony? (I expect they would need to be removed daily.)

Tofu is an interesting idea. Fresh tofu isn't always available where we live and it is expensive. Our supermarkets carry horrible stuff in cardboard boxes labeled "tofu" but I'd rather eat the box than its contents. Real tofu comes in plastic containers with water and a short expiration date. Do you use soft or firm tofu?

For organic straw, do your roaches eat it or just derive moisture as from a sponge?
Click to expand...

Roaches eat a bit of organic hay (not straw) but my locusts and crickets are much more interested in it, devoring it in no time. As for tofu, I use the soft one.
Iceberg lettuce is known to provoke diarrhea in small rodents (I am also a rodent keeper) and is on the list of a vet book for reptile as something toxic for green iguanas and tortoises (book from Vet. Dr. Lionel Schilliger). So, I assume it could be dangerous for geckos as well, if their prey are fed with it.
 
Saskia

Saskia

New member
What an interesting thread!!! I am starting a Blaptica dubia colony, and am growing my Pycnoscelus surinamensis colony, I want to give both several months to grow and multiply before I start using them as feeders, (I buy them as feeders from another breeder at the time), and I am very very interested in knowing as much as possible, for the B. dubia I use watermellon crust (shell, not sure about the appropiate term/word in english) to provide hydration, I leave about 2 inches of thickness to the crust and I change it every other day when it starts to get mushy, it makes me curious why it hasn´t been mentioned when (to me) it seems like the ideal water source, does watermellon contain something that is not good or is harmfull in any way?? I did once provide my P. madagascariensis with watermellon water and she seemed to like it, it was gone within a few hours (I only gave a few drops, maybe up to 1cc) but since I have not read anything about it (about the watermellon) I wanted to ask the pros!!
 
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