Birth defect?
- Thread starter zytan92
- Start date
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
How are you supplementing with calcium and vitamins?
Please share exact brands, products, and frequency of use.
How long have you had this leo? About how old is he?
Please share exact brands, products, and frequency of use.
How long have you had this leo? About how old is he?
Cor8et
New member
MDB (metabolic bone disease). All limb`s look to have been effected bud.
Some info on what`s going on:
Reptiles that eat primarily insects or plants are at risk for developing metabolic bone disease, which is caused by an imbalance in the levels of calcium, phosphorous, and vitamin D in their bodies.
Typical symptoms of metabolic bone disease include:
Limping
Bowed legs
Hard lumps along the legs, spinal column, or jaw
Softening and unusual flexibility of the lower jaw
Difficulty raising the body off the ground
If calcium levels in the blood become very low, depression, lethargy, twitches, tremors, hind end weakness, seizures, and death may result.
A reptile that is only mildly affected by metabolic bone disease will usually completely recover with dietary improvements, calcium and vitamin D supplements.
Did you buy him like this ?
The Good news is, you have taken a big step forward to healing the wee fella to a full recovery by posting on here
Good luck
Some info on what`s going on:
Reptiles that eat primarily insects or plants are at risk for developing metabolic bone disease, which is caused by an imbalance in the levels of calcium, phosphorous, and vitamin D in their bodies.
Typical symptoms of metabolic bone disease include:
Limping
Bowed legs
Hard lumps along the legs, spinal column, or jaw
Softening and unusual flexibility of the lower jaw
Difficulty raising the body off the ground
If calcium levels in the blood become very low, depression, lethargy, twitches, tremors, hind end weakness, seizures, and death may result.
A reptile that is only mildly affected by metabolic bone disease will usually completely recover with dietary improvements, calcium and vitamin D supplements.
Did you buy him like this ?
The Good news is, you have taken a big step forward to healing the wee fella to a full recovery by posting on here
Good luck
Thanks for the reply guys. He is about 4 weeks old. I believe he had this condition the moment he hatched. It was not obvious when he was younger/smaller so I wasn't sure. But it is getting obvious and noticeable now that he is bigger. I give him Repashy Calcium plus. Will he start walking normally if I continue to give him supplements? Thanks.
Embrace Calamity
New member
What are the temps in the enclosure? How often are you giving the Repashy? It does look like MBD, but there's no reason for a gecko being given Repashy to develop it - unless maybe the temps are too low for him to utilize the vitamin D3 and calcium. If it's getting worse, he needs to see a vet.
~Maggot
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
How much Repashy's Calcium Plus: light dustings, heavy dustings, daily use? any in enclosure 24/7?
Have you been using Repashy's Calcium Plus since the moment he hatched?
What do you feed him and what do you feed the feeders?
Too much D3 can be as harmful as not enough.
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Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Leos need 3 hides and a temperature gradient from warm to cool. Have you checked out some caresheets?
If you are speaking of leaving Repashy's Calcium Plus in the tank 24/7, please remove it immediately. Very dangerous!!! Too much D3 can cause the problems you picture :sad:.
The only type of calcium to keep in an enclosure 24/7 is a very small bottle cap of plain calcium carbonate. Even usage from that needs to be carefully monitored.
It is very important for your leo to answer all the questions asked. Many things can contribute to problems. Often there is NOT an easy answer. Please catch up on questions from posts #3, #5, and #6. The leo you picture most likely has MBD. That is a serious and life-threatening disease. If the cause is not corrected this leo's limbs will get worse. We have seen it happen!
Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end
Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.
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Embrace Calamity
New member
It would be a good idea to fill out the questionnaire on this thread: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html That way we can get an idea of how your enclosure is set up. Your temps do sound a bit too low, but more information is always better.
~Maggot
I'm not debating whether too much calcium with D3 can cause problems, but I've never seen any studies or anything that definitively identifies geckos that have OD'ed on it or that describe specific symptoms if they have. I would love to see some of that information so I have the whole picture.
(and of course, someone could always write an article about it for Gecko Time).
Aliza
(and of course, someone could always write an article about it for Gecko Time).
Aliza
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Aliza ~
This might help for starters: Identification and treatment of metabolic bone disease
If the leo pictured in this thread was eating Repashy's Calcium Plus from the beginning, this thread itself demonstrates the problems.
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Embrace Calamity
New member
But that iguana was deficient in calcium and D3, not getting too much.
"To this day, his skull, spine, and hip joints are still deformed from the MBD and malnutrition caused by the lousy environment and lettuce-and-cat-food diet provided by his first owners who couldn't afford to care for him properly yet took almost a year to finally give him to someone who could."
So that really doesn't prove that MBD can be caused by too much calcium and D3 (not saying it can't, but it's not evidence of it). If you can find a single case of a gecko on Repashy who developed MBD due to the supplement itself, I would be interested to see it. I have, however, seen a gecko that developed MBD despite getting the proper supplements because it was kept way too cold and couldn't utilize the nutrients.
~Maggot
cricket4u
New member
There's simply not enough information provided from the OP to draw conclusions.
Of course a gecko can overdose(immediate toxicity) on D3 or as in most cases end up with organ failure years later. Sure there has been cases. There's geckos kept all around the world. Only few people are on forums and very few will even pay for toxicology. You can't expect to find everything on the internet.
Of course a gecko can overdose(immediate toxicity) on D3 or as in most cases end up with organ failure years later. Sure there has been cases. There's geckos kept all around the world. Only few people are on forums and very few will even pay for toxicology. You can't expect to find everything on the internet.
Thanks for the article citation. I still haven't seen anything that documents D3 overdose. The article named the condition and then went on to state that it's very rare and only known in gravid iguanas. I know that there can be cases in life that aren't reported on the internet, but without any documentation at all, it's hard to know if it is happening in life.
Aliza
Aliza
cricket4u
New member
Vet #1
A friend scanned this for me. It's written by Douglas R. Mader, DMV
Is there any way to make the article larger without clicking on it anyone?
Vet#2 My vet has done plenty of lizard, gecko, and chameleon Necropsies in which it was determined the cause of death was massive over-calcification of the soft tissues, so this isn't "just talk". My vet's website (Dr. Mark Burgess) with all his info available
The vet wrote a letter to the FDA once in regards to RepCal. It's from another forum so I'm not able to post it.
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Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Thanks, cricket! Would be nice to have that article larger. Perhaps tech wizard EC knows how to enlarge it .
At least when ones clicks on it, it is legible.
Anyone know how to post an enlarged version?
.At least when ones clicks on it, it is legible.
Anyone know how to post an enlarged version?
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Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Click right here for additional information:
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-health-issues-setup-question.html#post387135
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-health-issues-setup-question.html#post387135
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Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Aliza ~
Click on Mader's article just as if it were a "regular" link. It is legible then. Do you know the easiest way to post a larger copy of that?