Sparty not eating willingly, been 5 days

[Amuna1225]

Hello all and great to be back on here.

Every time after Sparty sheds, she usually goes a day or two without eating but does always go to the bathroom. I have gotten used to this, and have known not to worry.

However, it has now been 5 days, and she still will not take food willingly. It has gotten to a point where I am opening her mouth and putting the worms in there myself. I did that for the first time yesterday.

she is going to the bathroom normally, her mouth looks fine, and I know she can see. I have tried a little vegetable oil on her nose initially because I wasn't sure if she was partially impacted. She did defecate the day after but she still will not willingly eat.

She looks at the worms, but does not seem interested. I have also tried crickets which gets no response.

I'm also worried because I have no way to get her her multi-vitamin, which she has not had for a week now in full. I put a little bit on the worms i put in her mouth, but I was only able to get 3 worms force fed to her before she started freaking out.

Any tips would be helpful.

Temps are where they should be, she gets her calcium twice a week, there is calcium in the tank and she gets her vitamins once a week. Humidity ranges from 30-45%.

In the past, she always ate 10-12 mealworms or 8-9 crickets every day. I'm starting to get scared and worried.

 

[cricket4u]

Hi,

Do not force food in her mouth. If she's refusing to eat there's a reason and it may be a way of protecting her body. There's something wrong with her husbandry which you have to figure out and correct. Feel free to fill out the questionnaire and post pictures.

 

[Amuna1225]

I honestly don't think that's the reason. Her cage is cleaned weekly, her temps are great, ect. I went over the checklist on here so many times it's engrained in my head lol.

 

[cricket4u]

I honestly don't think that's the reason. Her cage is cleaned weekly, her temps are great, ect. I went over the checklist on here so many times it's engrained in my head lol.

This may solve all your problems, really. There's like a terrible plague of dehydration in leos everywhere and sadly most owners are unaware.

I recommend that you buy the longest enclosure possible. A wooden enclosure or any material closed off at the top (side ventilation and open in the front) would be best. It will hold in heat and humidity properly, increasing the chances of a healthier leo and decreasing chances of dehydration, shedding problems and illness in general.

 

[Amuna1225]

I will see what I can find! Didn't even think dehydration would be the thing. I see her drinking from her water bowl all the time.

 

[cricket4u]

I will see what I can find! Didn't even think dehydration would be the thing. I see her drinking from her water bowl all the time.

That would actually raise a red flag. I have not seen any of my 3 drink water in over a month now and I spend lots of time observing them. Even when I'm posting they're directly across the room from me. They have 2 water dishes each and when I change their water I'm thinking what a waste. Due to desert adaptation they rarely drink and rely on other sources for moisture such as prey and the humidity hide. If you are observing drink often, they're desperate. Common causes below:

Enclosure too warm- includes UTH (desiccation)
Humidity too low
Too much supplementation
Prey not well hydrated
Secondary to illness

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

:idea: How about completing the Health/Wellness Questionnaire and pasting it onto this thread? It is a superior troubleshooting method, because it allows us to see many things at a glance.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html

 

[Amuna1225]

General Information
Species of lizard: Leo
Gecko's name: Sparty
Morph: Not sure
Gender: F
Age: Approximately 10 months
Weight: Never measured, no way too
Total length: 9 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: 4 inches?
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Pet store
Captive bred or wild caught: Bred

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 20 gallon
Cage (type, size): Aquariam
Substrate provided: tile
Types of hiding places provided: 3
Is there a humidity hide? location? yes, in the middle, approximately 80-82 degrees F
Please describe any other furnishings: Basking rock, she loves laying there. Right next to her warm hide. Rock stays anywhere from 83-88 degrees F
List recent changes in the environment, if any: none

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): 75 watt black
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: i leave the light on in her room for 10 hours a day

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): temp gun, and digital
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 90 degrees
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 79 degrees
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 71 degrees
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH is main
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): yes
Are you using a thermostat(s)? yes
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? warm hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? ground temps are not, air temp is about 5 degrees

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? yes
Humidity range: usually 30-45% I've had it up to 60-70% now because of dehydration issues.

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: crickets and mealies
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Gutloaded with apples/carrots, and store bought gut load
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? see above
How often do you feed your gecko? I attempt to every day
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? rept-cal, zoomed
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? I have one with D3 and one without D3 that is left in cage
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? without
Multivitamins (include brand name)? yes, zoomed with D3
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: She hasn't been eating since she shed, which has been 6 days now

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: no obvious signs
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? normal
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): no
Discharge from the eyes or nose: no
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: Was pooping for first 3 days of not eating, now she is not
Urates
---white or yellowish: no
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: 1/4th
Abnormal skin color or shedding: no
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: no

Previous problems and/or illnesses:

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: n/a
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): n/a
Are any of your other pets ill? n/a

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The urates are the whitish stuff usually deposited at the same time as the feces. Do you see urates?

Will have to check out the rest of these details later today.

Please edit the Health Questionnaire with the exact type of Zoo Med products you use: Reptivite with or without D3, Repti-Calcium with or without D3?

PS: My recommendation since you first got Sparty has changed. I no longer recommend keeping any calcium (or other supplement) in the cage at all. Calcium taken without food can do more harm than good.

 

[Amuna1225]

Yes, i answered that there are urates when she poops and there always has been. They are normal sized.

And interested, i'd like to read more about the calcium deal.

 

[Amuna1225]

Hey guys, so i finally got two pics of sparty's mouth.

im not sure if anything is wrong, and these aren't the best pics but would like your advice.
Thanks!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Yes, i answered that there are urates when she poops and there always has been. They are normal sized.

And interested, i'd like to read more about the calcium deal.

Sorry I missed that. Time for bed!

Some keepers have not kept plain calcium in the enclosure for years. I'm hoping that cricket4u will fill you in /\ when she wakes up today.

Have you Zoo Med's Reptivite (their multivitamin) with D3 or Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3?

What kind of "store bought gutload"?

 

[Amuna1225]

I have a jurrassic brand calcium without D3, and the Zoomed calcium with D3, it's the repti-calcium.

Flukers gutload for crickets I use occasionally for both mealies and crickets. I only get it when it's on sale because it's normally 13 bucks around here.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I have a jurrassic brand calcium without D3, and the Zoomed calcium with D3, it's the repti-calcium.

Flukers gutload for crickets I use occasionally for both mealies and crickets. I only get it when it's on sale because it's normally 13 bucks around here.

Good on Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3. Consider Zoo Med's Reptivite (their multivitamin) with D3. Reptivite also contains vitamin A acetate which is important for eye and skin health.

Which Fluker's product? Their High Calcium Cricket Feed? If so, check out the research done by Mark Finke, Ph.D. in 2005. Even though the research is older, the products Finke compares are still sold. Fluker's HCCF was evaluated and shown not to significantly increase the calcium level of the crickets to which it was fed.

For that research, check post #45 immediately following the basic Leo Caresheet right here:
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...acularius-demo-video-4-jan-2013-update-5.html

For 2 separate dry foods which are very good diets for crickets (and maybe mealies too) read:
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

We are what we eat!

 

[cricket4u]

Can you post a clear picture of the whole enclosure as well?

 

[Amuna1225]

Look,
Can you guys just tell me what you think is wrong? That's all i want. I'm worried sick about Sparty and I feel all these questions you guys are asking me are needless.

I tried the hydration thing, gave her a bath and I got the humidity in her cage up to 65-70% and she still won't eat today..

Also, I've found that every time after I give her a bath she starts to get grey. I don't know if that has something to do with it but it always happens.

A couple of months ago I gave her a bath a week after she shed and 3 days later she shed again.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Look,
Can you guys just tell me what you think is wrong? That's all i want. I'm worried sick about Sparty and I feel all these questions you guys are asking me are needless.

I tried the hydration thing, gave her a bath and I got the humidity in her cage up to 65-70% and she still won't eat today..

Also, I've found that every time after I give her a bath she starts to get grey. I don't know if that has something to do with it but it always happens.

A couple of months ago I gave her a bath a week after she shed and 3 days later she shed again.

:yahoo: for a 9 inch total length female leo at ~10 mo! If you share a photo of all of Sparty we can tell if she is ready to cut back to 3 feedings per week. Perhaps she's a giant morph and she'll grow even larger?

(Plus a cage photo)

I understand your frustration. I am not keeping any secrets from you. It is difficult to suggest remedies via the internet because we often don't have the complete picture. That's what our questions are about...really.

Temps are where they should be, she gets her calcium twice a week, there is calcium in the tank and she gets her vitamins once a week.

1) From what you post on this thread, Sparty is not getting any multivitamin. :-( I suggest Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3 on a couple of her crickets and mealies per week along with Repti-Calcium with D3 1x per week.

2) Maybe Sparty's refusal to eat willingly has to do with the winter season and slowing down? Perhaps she's ready to switch to 3x per week feeding?

3) Forcing a leo to eat is extremely stressful. Please share a recent photo of her. From a photo we can judge whether 5+ days with no food is a problem.

4) Is your 20 gallon enclosure 30 inches long? If so, I recommend moving the humid hide to the warm end where the warm dry hide is.

5) Beef up your cricket/mealworm diet. Your feeders need more nutrients.

6) Read post #66 \/ following the basic Leo Caresheet. cricket4u lists many reasons why a leo many go off food.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...acularius-demo-video-4-jan-2013-update-7.html

 

[Amuna1225]

She gets a multi-vitamin. It's the zoomed one, i thought i said that..I also use this vitamin spray as well that i bought initially until I was told it wasn't good because it only had Beta Carotene. I use that once a week and the zoomed once a week. Here's a picture

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

She gets a multi-vitamin. It's the zoomed one, i thought i said that..I also use this vitamin spray as well that i bought initially until I was told it wasn't good because it only had Beta Carotene. I use that once a week and the zoomed once a week. Here's a picture View attachment 27048

Judging from this photo, Sparty is of ample size! :biggrin: I would NOT worry if she has not eaten in 5 days. Maybe she just needs another type feeder. Just let her be for awhile. Discontinue any force feeding.

Zoomed calcium with D3, it's the repti-calcium

Do you mean that "multivitamn" /\?

That's not a multivitamin. Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3 is their multivitamin. Right here:

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/E...7czoxOiIwIjtzOjg6IlNlYXJjaF95IjtzOjE6IjAiO30=

 

[Amuna1225]

That's the one i have. I use their calcium with D3 and their multivitamin. That's the one you told me to get because you told me the vitamin spray wasn't good enough because it only had beta caratene in it