Leo ate some paper towel

[Andi]

Well, everything was going pretty great with my Leos. I was even getting my picky eater back on crickets.

Last night however, my picky eater started to go into shed. This morning I noticed that while shedding, he/she must have confused shedding skin for the paper towel substrate in the moist hide and took a go at it.

My Leo did not eat a lot of the paper towel at all, but it looks like there was a small corner of the paper towel missing. Maybe the size of 1/2 inch wide by 1 inch long. I'm not even sure how this leo was able to get a hold of the corner as I make sure that the paper towel is whole and I even fold it so no edges are visible and even tuck the corners to ensure a nice flat surface.

Needless to say, I'm concerned. to be honest, I think the piece of paper towel is small enough for it to pass naturally, but will paper towel move smoothly through it's system? Will the natural reflex be to regurgitate it? Should I give my Leo a soak when I get home?

I will monitor it very closely moving forward to see if there is some sort of impaction, but if there is advice someone would like to offer, please feel free.

I was thinking of getting some moss substrate, but now I'm wondering...if my Leo will accidentally rip off paper towel at eat it.... won't it accidentally eat the moss too?

 

[Andi]

I'm not even sure if it's worth sharing because I received no replied....but I feel compelled.

I came home from work today to check on my Leo and found that it had dropped its tail. I honestly feel sick. I called the guy I got it from and he told me that a possible impaction would not cause it to drop it's tail. He said chances are that while it was completing it's shed, the Leo pulled too hard, and the tail dropped. But this was not a long drawn out shedding process. It went into shed last night, I check on it this morning and it was almost fully done, today after work it was completely done ... but no tail.

My landlord was also in the apartment today because I had a leak. I'm wondering if maybe he was messing with my Leo and scared him? I'm afraid to ask because I don't know how to go about getting an honest answer....and I don't want him to lie and just blow me off. Not to mention, I am pretty positive that my Leo did eat a small piece of paper towel, so I'm not sure if some sort of internal stress caused this?

I also don't think it was my Landlord because he's not the type to mess with my stuff....plus, the tail was underneath the warm hide, not out in the open or anything.

This really sucks. I thought I was doing everything right. Maybe the paper towel as a substrate is a mistake, but it certainly was not intentional.

I'm typing this and feeling completely dejected...I feel like a failure to be totally honest.

 

[shawn101]

Probably dropped it due to stress would be my guess. Im pretty new to this though, only had my gecko a week. Her tail will grow back, just keep the paper towels clean to make sure nothing gets into the wound to infect it, and take out crickets after 15 min if she/he doesnt eat them.

Paper towel is biodegradable, she/he should be able to digest and pass it, but they are little so it might be tough on her, make sure ground temps stay warm for her to help.

 

[Andi]

thanks, I appreciate your response. What annoys me is that there are too many variables for me right now to figure it out.

I really want to believe that my landlord had nothing to do with this...I want to think that, but of course, I can't rule it out. But he's coming to pick up the rent tomorrow so I'll ask...

I think it's safe to say that an impaction would not cause a Leo to drop it's tail. Especially if the Leo ate the Paper Towel early this morning and dropped the tail in the afternoon. that seems too soon.

The one thing that stands out to me, could possibly be due to shedding. I noticed this morning before work, when I misted the hide again, the Leo had all of the shed skin still remaining on the tail. head and body were almost all done. I just can't imagine that a Leo would try to pull skin off it's tail and in the process actually drop it's tail. That seems way too counter productive to me? Why would an animal do that?

As for stress.....I'm not sure what caused the stress? But this leo seems really stressed out now. won't come out of the moist hide (which is nice and warm) and didn't eat tonight. I'm assuming it will not poop tonight either. I'll wait a good 24/48 hours, if things don't start going back to normal I will have to take necessary action.

for almost 2 months everything was just fine....than swallowed paper towel and dropped tail in the same 12-18 hour span.

thanks for the tips too, I made sure the paper towels were changed tonight when I saw what happened and the temps are all good.

 

[shawn101]

While unlikely, it is possible that previous sheds didnt come off the tail as well, the constriction of even one shed can cause toes to fall off, so it is possible that sheds stuck on the tail cut of circulation and it dropped. She'll be fine, if she hasnt ate anything it a couple days you might have to force feed her a cricket or two.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

thanks, I appreciate your response. What annoys me is that there are too many variables for me right now to figure it out.

I really want to believe that my landlord had nothing to do with this...I want to think that, but of course, I can't rule it out. But he's coming to pick up the rent tomorrow so I'll ask...

I think it's safe to say that an impaction would not cause a Leo to drop it's tail. Especially if the Leo ate the Paper Towel early this morning and dropped the tail in the afternoon. that seems too soon.

The one thing that stands out to me, could possibly be due to shedding. I noticed this morning before work, when I misted the hide again, the Leo had all of the shed skin still remaining on the tail. head and body were almost all done. I just can't imagine that a Leo would try to pull skin off it's tail and in the process actually drop it's tail. That seems way too counter productive to me? Why would an animal do that?

As for stress.....I'm not sure what caused the stress? But this leo seems really stressed out now. won't come out of the moist hide (which is nice and warm) and didn't eat tonight. I'm assuming it will not poop tonight either. I'll wait a good 24/48 hours, if things don't start going back to normal I will have to take necessary action.

for almost 2 months everything was just fine....than swallowed paper towel and dropped tail in the same 12-18 hour span.

thanks for the tips too, I made sure the paper towels were changed tonight when I saw what happened and the temps are all good.

Did she drop the entire tail? Did you notice any tail constriction prior to this shed?

Keep the tail clean and dry to promote good healing.

About the ingestion of paper towels: You can try 1 warm soak per day. During the soak gently massage the leo's undersides from throat to vent.

Make sure her cage temps are as recommended and that she has access to fresh water. I would not feed her for a few days

 

[Andi]

Did she drop the entire tail? Did you notice any tail constriction prior to this shed?

Keep the tail clean and dry to promote good healing.

About the ingestion of paper towels: You can try 1 warm soak per day. During the soak gently massage the leo's undersides from throat to vent.

Make sure her cage temps are as recommended and that she has access to fresh water. I would not feed her for a few days

Yes, dropped the entire tail. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the tail. The construction looked fine and there was no stuck shed whatsoever prior to this shed.

As for the tail. I have done nothing thus far. I just replaced the paper towels to keep everything clean. It is dry in there, but I still have the moist hide in there too (which of course is moist). and of course fresh water every day.

Cage temps are good.

My Leo did poop late last night, but she ate a big meal the night before, and she also ate her skin during the shedding process. she had no interest in food last night though, and hasn't eaten anything thing since the Paper Towel / Tail dropping incident (other than her shed skin).

I'm actually kind of nervous to give this Leo a soak A) because the wound on the tail is still very fresh looking and B) the last thing I want to do is add more stress.

Is it ok to leave a few mealworms in a dish? or should I remove them? I don't want to cause more impaction...I'm actually going to the pet store after my Landlord gets here to get some Wax Worms. I figured they would be a good treat and won't cause more impaction.

Or should I hold off for a couple more days?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Did she drop the entire tail? Did you notice any tail constriction prior to this shed?

Keep the tail clean and dry to promote good healing.

About the ingestion of paper towels: You can try 1 warm soak per day. During the soak gently massage the leo's undersides from throat to vent.

Make sure her cage temps are as recommended and that she has access to fresh water. I would not feed her for a few days

Sorry for my conflicting recommendations above. :sad: Good that YOU were paying attention!

Yes, dropped the entire tail. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the tail. The construction looked fine and there was no stuck shed whatsoever prior to this shed.

As for the tail. I have done nothing thus far. I just replaced the paper towels to keep everything clean. It is dry in there, but I still have the moist hide in there too (which of course is moist). and of course fresh water every day.

Excellent first aid! Keep it up.

Cage temps are good.

My Leo did poop late last night, but she ate a big meal the night before, and she also ate her skin during the shedding process. she had no interest in food last night though, and hasn't eaten anything thing since the Paper Towel / Tail dropping incident (other than her shed skin).

Was her poop exceptionally large after her big meal and the ingestion of the paper towel? The chitin in mealworms + the paper towel could have caused an impaction of sorts resulting in a very painful poop? I'm wondering whether that could have been the cause of her tail drop?

Crickets have less chitin and more nutrition than do mealworms.

There are a several GU threads on leo Peach. She was impacted with sand. It appeared that Peach's impaction was moving towards her vent. However, when Peach tried to poop, she let out a horrible scream and died in the process.

Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...32-my-leo-peach-her-fight-sand-impaction.html

I'm actually kind of nervous to give this Leo a soak A) because the wound on the tail is still very fresh looking and B) the last thing I want to do is add more stress.

Good call! No need to soak her that I can see.

Is it ok to leave a few mealworms in a dish? or should I remove them? I don't want to cause more impaction...I'm actually going to the pet store after my Landlord gets here to get some Wax Worms. I figured they would be a good treat and won't cause more impaction.

Or should I hold off for a couple more days?

What I suggest is feeding her crickets for the above mentioned reasons.

Sorry that I did not get back with you earlier. Waxworms are bad news! They are mostly fat, like humans eating brie or Baskin-Robbins ice cream.

A nutritious treat for any leopard gecko would be hornworms or silkworms. Both these are high in moisture and offer nutrition as well.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

PS:

What is the length of the enclosure? What are your warm and cool end temps? How are you heating everything?

 

[Andi]

PS:

What is the length of the enclosure? What are your warm and cool end temps? How are you heating everything?

The length is 24 Inches by 16 Wide.

I'm using a heat pad that makes the Warm hide between 89-92. and a moist hide directly on top of the heat pad that gets in the mid 80's.

Cool side is between 68-73 depending on ambient temps.

 

[Andi]

Also, my Leo has pooped every single day since dropping the tail.

The poop has looked totally fine. Good size, I see no paper towel in there at all, or any signs of distress.

She's back to eating too. The tail is looking better too....looks like it's healing just fine.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The length is 24 Inches by 16 Wide.

I'm using a heat pad that makes the Warm hide between 89-92. and a moist hide directly on top of the heat pad that gets in the mid 80's.

Cool side is between 68-73 depending on ambient temps.

Thanks, Andi. Type of thermometer(s) & brand?

Also, my Leo has pooped every single day since dropping the tail.

The poop has looked totally fine. Good size, I see no paper towel in there at all, or any signs of distress.

She's back to eating too. The tail is looking better too....looks like it's healing just fine.

Good about the poop.

I came home from work today to check on my Leo and found that it had dropped its tail. I honestly feel sick. I called the guy I got it from and he told me that a possible impaction would not cause it to drop it's tail. He said chances are that while it was completing it's shed, the Leo pulled too hard, and the tail dropped. But this was not a long drawn out shedding process. It went into shed last night, I check on it this morning and it was almost fully done, today after work it was completely done ... but no tail.

Was the tail the last part to shed?

Could there have been ANY sudden loud noise like music, outside chaos, or some other interference like a cat that might have stressed your leo enough to cause a tail drop?

Since it happened during shedding, maybe somehow she just tugged too hard. :-(

 

[Andi]

Thanks, Andi. Type of thermometer(s) & brand?



Good about the poop.



Was the tail the last part to shed?

Could there have been ANY sudden loud noise like music, outside chaos, or some other interference like a cat that might have stressed your leo enough to cause a tail drop?

Since it happened during shedding, maybe somehow she just tugged too hard. :-(

I'm using a Zilla Digital probe thermometer (hot hide). Also a Zilla Humidity and Temp Guage Dial (on cold side).

Yes, the tail was the last part to shed.

Unfortunately the landlord and plummer were in the building because there was a leak in the basement. They went into my apartment to run the water (to try to find the leak), but they didn't do any work in my apartment. but there was some banging in the basement (right below me), but nothing actually in my apartment. I also asked my landlord if he went into my room where my Leos are, and he said he didn't. Still can't rule it out though, but I want to believe him (he is a pretty decent guy). No cats or other animals.

I guess it should also be said, I live right next to a major intersection in Queens. It's generally fine, but some times these gigantic trucks and motorcycles can be pretty annoying. Not so loud where it wakes up you at night, but you do hear them.

 

[Saskia]

I am sorry you are struggling with this issue, I will dare to give you a piece of advice:
Regarding the paper towel, I use them as well, I have receintly found a better option, another type of reusable paper towel, it is very difficult to rip, even for a person, and impossible for a gecko, this is the one I use now:

http://mlv-s2-p.mlstatic.com/servilletas-napkins-lips-y-toallines-scott-10145-MLV20025148775_122013-F.jpg

Regarding your leo´s tail drop, it is actually strange, I find it hard to believe that some noise would be the cause, it is not impossible, but it is almost all the times it has to be some mechanic grab to the tail to cause the tail drop, i think it would have to be some MAJOR external stresser like an earthquake or something, but of course, what do i know....

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I'm using a Zilla Digital probe thermometer (hot hide). Also a Zilla Humidity and Temp Guage Dial (on cold side).

Yes, the tail was the last part to shed.

Unfortunately the landlord and plummer were in the building because there was a leak in the basement. They went into my apartment to run the water (to try to find the leak), but they didn't do any work in my apartment. but there was some banging in the basement (right below me), but nothing actually in my apartment. I also asked my landlord if he went into my room where my Leos are, and he said he didn't. Still can't rule it out though, but I want to believe him (he is a pretty decent guy). No cats or other animals.

I guess it should also be said, I live right next to a major intersection in Queens. It's generally fine, but some times these gigantic trucks and motorcycles can be pretty annoying. Not so loud where it wakes up you at night, but you do hear them.

Here in the USA Scott manufactures these blue Shop paper towels. I bought some at Home Depot.

Have not seen Scott's Duramax paper towels yet. Maybe they are even tougher!

http://www.directionsforme.org/index.php/directions/product/NAPKIN/07702425679252

PS:
Just a comment on the noise factor: One of our GU members had to have a major roofing job done on her home in the midst of winter. Many roofers came all at once. She kept her cresties in an upper room right under the roof. The result of all the clammor: All her cresties dropped their tails. The loud banging was the only disturbance. :sad:

 

[shawn101]

Scott's Duramax came out where I work late last year. Pretty good idea if you use paper towels.

 

[Saskia]

Here in the USA Scott manufactures these blue Shop paper towels. I bought some at Home Depot.

Have not seen Scott's Duramax paper towels yet. Maybe they are even tougher!

They are almost as tough as cloth, it is impossible for a leopard gecko to rip it off, it just so happened that one of my girls grabed a piece of it last night during feeding, and she pulled and pulled with no success, she finally let go with no consequences am super happy with this product so far, haven´t found any downside, it is even better for humid hides, because it doesn´t get hard when dry, and holds humidity longer...

Just a comment on the noise factor: One of our GU members had to have a major roofing job done on her home. Many roofers came all at once. She kept her cresties in an upper room right under the roof. The result of all the clammor: All her cresties dropped their tails. The loud banging was the only disturbance.

WOW Imagine that!!!! Once I was holding my first gecko out, severl years ago, my old munchies, she was a lot younger back then... and an incredibly loud firework sounded, I swear it sounded like a bomb, super super loud, and my Munchies was laying in my hand and she kind of jumped on her spot, opened her mouth and her ears closed!! she let her mouth open for a few instants, and slowly her ears opened back, I donpt know how to explain it, I doubt she did it intentionally (the ear closing thing), but they closed like an sfinter, but her tail was perfect...... of course, every gecko is different... is the OP´s little guy very skittish??

 

[Andi]

thanks for all the help. I have never seen those paper towels before, but I will definitely look for them!!!

As far as this Leo being very skittish. Well I'm not exactly sure. When I first got it, he ate right away and explored right away (which I thought was a great sign). Still not exactly tame, but I have only had him for 7 weeks now.

PS, I really thought i was back on track with him in terms of getting him back to normal (btw, I call this Leo a "him" but it's too young to sex). But I noticed he hasn't eaten as much the last 2 days. Just a couple mealworms each day, and he didn't poop last night.

I thought that he was not impacted because he pooped 3 days in a row after the paper towel incident...but now I'm not so sure. I actually just gave him a warm soak. It's actually normal for him to not eat much every once in a while, but never 2 days in a row. I'm monitoring him very closely right now.

Again, I appreciate all the help, and I will keep you updated.

 

[shawn101]

If you look for those paper towels, you usually find them in the automotive or tool departments of retailers, not housewares.

 

[Andi]

Well, I just fed him and he ate like a champ. I had to give him Wax Worms because lately all he wants to do with the Crickets is just kill them. He'll bite them, kill them, rip their legs off, but doesn't seem too interested in eating them, and I don't want to risk leaving one or two in there to bite his tail.

Thursday I'm going to pick up some hornworms. I know he likes those for sure. I don't want to keep giving him mealworms, and wax worms are just a treat I give him every 2-3 weeks or so. If anyone knows a cheap place where I can order Dubias that would also be very helpful for me. I know LLL Reptile sells them, but they are 16 bucks for 100 small Dubias. That seems REALLY expensive to me, not to mention the shipping charges.