newbie questions

[Saskia]

Back when I worked here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Terrario-del-Parque-del-Este/134317060540 when we needed to immovilize snakes in order to get blood or whatever was necessary, we used to put them into plastic transparent hoses, like this:

View attachment 28936

I am going to go to the hardware store on monday to see if I can buy a piece of plastic tube/hose that could fit a gecko in, and take it just in case...

I can ceirtainly make a video of betty!! I don´t promise much quality because I have a junky phone, but I believe it can show what I say, in fact, I will make it right now!!

By the way, I was thinking about getting some blood work done as well, I did a little math, and according to my calculations, geckos of approximately 50 grames of weight have less than 3cc of blood in their bodies! So, they would take an extraction of 0,1cc max, and given they have SUCH little veins... how would a vet manage to put a needle into such a small vein?? Do they need special needles as well?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Back when I worked here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Terrario-del-Parque-del-Este/134317060540 when we needed to immovilize snakes in order to get blood or whatever was necessary, we used to put them into plastic transparent hoses, like this:

View attachment 28936

I am going to go to the hardware store on monday to see if I can buy a piece of plastic tube/hose that could fit a gecko in, and take it just in case...

I can ceirtainly make a video of betty!! I don´t promise much quality because I have a junky phone, but I believe it can show what I say, in fact, I will make it right now!!

By the way, I was thinking about getting some blood work done as well, I did a little math, and according to my calculations, geckos of approximately 50 grames of weight have less than 3cc of blood in their bodies! So, they would take an extraction of 0,1cc max, and given they have SUCH little veins... how would a vet manage to put a needle into such a small vein?? Do they need special needles as well?

cricket4u -- Where are you? I think she might have answers for your blood extraction questions.

 

[Saskia]

Aaand, here is the video:

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Looks as if she is in the middle of an ocean! Needs swimming lessons! ha ha ha ;-)

Seriously, though, I think I see what you mean with Betty's gait. Wonder whether she was that way from birth?

 

[Saskia]

I believe there´s no way of knowing that because she was a subadult or a young adult when I got her, I didn´t measure her (my bad ), only weighed her (15 grs - Bones showing everywhere) ... I think she is a bit larger, but that could be the impression I have now that she has a tail, and has gained muscular mass... perhaps she is just bigger, not larger, in which case, I would say she was already an adult back then... she was for sure not a juvenile... I have always seen that jhon wayne kind of walk in her, from day 1.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I believe there´s no way of knowing that because she was a subadult or a young adult when I got her, I didn´t measure her (my bad ), only weighed her (15 grs - Bones showing everywhere) ... I think she is a bit larger, but that could be the impression I have now that she has a tail, and has gained muscular mass... perhaps she is just bigger, not larger, in which case, I would say she was already an adult back then... she was for sure not a juvenile... I have always seen that jhon wayne kind of walk in her, from day 1.

WOW, Saskia, Betty has come miles! :yahoo: on rehabbing her!

How much does she weigh now?

 

[Saskia]

WOW, Saskia, Betty has come miles! :yahoo: on rehabbing her!

How much does she weigh now?

She is wonderful at 53 grames right now, you can see her complection on the video, she has a nice plumpy tail, but she is not obese.

By the way, I forgot to answer, I have no idea about Vitamin A being present in the chicken food I use, because it is a generic brand, I buy it by the kilo, in a plastic bag, it doesn´t have a label brand on it for me to check, I haven´t seen any label brand chicken food here, I would have to dig a bit online to try and find out.

 

[Saskia]

I am excited about the vet appointment tomorrow!! I called today to confirm and to ask about how are they planning on getting the geckos to be still, they told me they were going to try a few ideas, the first one will be using envoplast... don't know about that... migh t work, as long as they don't cover the head... The vet that will see my geckos is the "exotics expert" ... I actually know her from dog rescue, she is a nice girl, but her "exotics" experience is limited to a few parrots (parrots are somewhat common pets here, way more than reptiles, but they hardly ever go to the vet), she has no studies and almost no experience in the reptile field, but she is willing to learn, and she can perform X Rays! Actually, last year when I knew she was the "exotics expert" I asked if she knew about reptile parasites and if she'd be willing to perform fecal tests, and she sincerely said no, because she knew that reptiles HAD to have some "benign" parasites and bacteria naturally, and she wouldn't be able to interpret the results right, because in her formation as a vet, with cats and dogs, the goal is to eliminate ALL parasites... anyways... just a story... I will go feed my guys now...

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Right about 8 AM I phoned my vet's office. Then I quickly went back to sleep. :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

The receptionist spoke with the x-ray tech. This is what they said. A leo would be stabilized with surgical tape on its tail and neck. Then they would cover the leo with a small towel (a washcloth). The washcloth would be pinned down on the corners by human fingers.

Let me know how they stabilize your leos.

I wonder whether they will email you the radiographs and whether you might consider sharing them on GU?

 

[Saskia]

I have taken dogs to that clinic before to get XRays done (((I have a somewhat close relationship with them, because they are one of the most advanced clinics in Venezuela in regards of equipment - not all clinics here perform xRays - , and they are very nice and cosidered when it comes to charging for rescue dogs, and also because, out of casuality, a few friends of me, fellow reptile hobbists work there as vet techs, so, it all comes together resulting in me going there every now and then, and knowing people there))) for broken bones, and they usually give me a CD with the XRays in high deffinition, I will for sure share them!

I am not sure about taping their tails, wouldn´t they get REALLY scared, and wouldn´t there be a risk of loosing the tail?? Both females, Munchies and Betty are super sweet and tame, but it is a whole different story with the males, Randy only tolerates handling for a little while, and Fire doesn´t like it at all... he is also the youngest, you know how they are, with time he might tolerate it but right now he doesn´t like it... I am now re-thinking about taking him... I wouldn´t want him to drop his beautiful tail

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

......

I am not sure about taping their tails, wouldn´t they get REALLY scared, and wouldn´t there be a risk of loosing the tail?? Both females, Munchies and Betty are super sweet and tame, but it is a whole different story with the males, Randy only tolerates handling for a little while, and Fire doesn´t like it at all... he is also the youngest, you know how they are, with time he might tolerate it but right now he doesn´t like it... I am now re-thinking about taking him... I wouldn´t want him to drop his beautiful tail

I "think" surgical tape is NOT sticky.

I had an 8 gram female Phelsuma barbouri x-rayed last summer too at the same office. When I return this summer, I'll see whether I can find out more.

What about taking Fire? Then you can decide whether to go through with the radiograph when you are there.

 

[mecoat]

This is gonna sound kinda stupid, don't they stay still enough on their own for an x-ray? - Daff stays really still if he thinks someone is watching (I think he's part Weeping Angel (from Doctor Who) but not nearly as scary as one - you never really see him move, but look away, and he's somewhere else).

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

This is gonna sound kinda stupid, don't they stay still enough on their own for an x-ray? - Daff stays really still if he thinks someone is watching (I think he's part Weeping Angel (from Doctor Who) but not nearly as scary as one - you never really see him move, but look away, and he's somewhere else).

Maybe some geckos will stay still enough on their own. But what if the gecko decides to split? I've never asked before nor have I watched the process.

 

[mecoat]

Maybe some geckos will stay still enough on their own. But what if the gecko decides to split? I've never asked before nor have I watched the process.

Fair enough - Mine's never been x-rayed (nor have I), so I was curious.

 

[Saskia]

I will DEFFINITELY be there during the process... I was actually thinking about taking pictures to share with GU from the whole process, I will take the four of them (got the critter cages ready already, will leave in about half an hour), but I will put the girls in first, and see how they do, and then, Randy, I´ll leave Fire for last, and will decide after watching how it goes for the rest of them... I have small deli cups, I will bring one, because they stay still enough in there... but they wouldn´t be straight, but all bent instead... They sugested using env-o-plast.... it doesn´t seem so bad, if they pin them to a firm, straight surface.

 

[Saskia]

I am back!!!
All the XRays wehe performed great, I wore my plum aprin and got into the XRay room with the vet, we first tried wrapping them on the pad with envoplast, but they felt the pressure and started to go crazy... in the end we placed them there and let them calm for a few moments, when they were holding still, she took the XRay!! No need to pin them, or imovilizing them what so ever, they just sat still there, so, the conclussion:
Randy DOES look in poor bone density, his XRay is different than the others´ , the vet assured me this was her first leopard gecko XRays, and that she wasn´t sure she was interpreting them right, but, in comparison to the others, he does look different, I will try to give him ReptiCalcium diluted in water once a week (the vet recomended to provide more calcium, she didn´t specify how, or how much, I came up with that idea, what do you think??) plus Reptivite once a week.

The vet had an atlas on small exotics XRays and we could compare with the leopard gecko´s xRays listed in the book, but it only showed the names of the bones... I have the xRays, and some pictures I took, will download them here in a little bit, I have a NatGeo translation I need to finish right now, and I am a little late, but wanted to give you a quick update.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Saskia ~

Cricket4u is an especially strong advocate of UVB lighting as the vitamin D source for her leopard geckos. She houses each of her 3 leos separately in 4.5 ft x 2 ft x 2 ft wooden enclosures with solid tops and side ventilation.

It is either UVB or a supplement with vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is necessary for the metabolism of calcium.

In the USA vets sometimes do online consultations with other vets when the need arises. Is that an option in Venezuela?

---About leo Randy: I'd start supplementing him with lightly powdered Repti-calcium with D3 on all feeders 2x per week. How much does he weigh? Zoo Med's Reptivite has weight suggestions. My vet recommends only a tiny pinch of Reptivite once a week. More info if necessary.

---Have you other leos in Randy's age range?

Look forward to seeing the radiographs and your other photos.

 

[Saskia]

Hello!!

Sorry for not posting them right away, I have a new gig that I can do from home (doing subtitles and translations for TV shows) and I had a deadline yesterday... anyways, here are the pictures and XRays:

This is in the waiting room:



Me on my blue aprin:



Processing the images, and the encyclopedia that the vet consulted:



This is the specific leopard gecko page she consulted:



And now, the xRays, ladies first, this is Betty's:



Munchies:



Fire:



And last but not least, Randy:



Actually Betty is about the same age as Randy (Randy hatched on may, 2.010, he is the son of Munchies, Betty was adopted on april 2.011, she was a young adult, so, they are about the same age), the issue with him is that he refuses any dusted prey, that´s why I wanted him to be one of the testeds, because as soon as he smells calcium/reptivite around, he doesn´t eat anymore, and if I manage to give him (tricking him) a dusted prey, he spits it out as soon as he tastes the calcium... I always used to believe that he was fine, and if his body was rejecting it, he probably didn´t need it as much, but the xRays showed otherwise, and that´s why I thought about giving it orally diluted in water, the vet wasn´t particularly concerned about it, only mentioned that his bone density was indeed lower than the others, and recomended providing more calcium... I have access to UV bulbs and natural sunlight, but I don´t think my enclosures are big enough to provide UVB light for nocturnal reptiles safely, I do it for my phelsuma, but he is diurnal, he needs and metabolizes UV better.

Vets do make consultations with other vets if needed, the thing is that, here, if you go to veterinary school, you can only do a specialization on small animals (such as pet dogs and cats), or cattle, there is no way a vet could make studies on reptiles, so, there is no vet to consult... I wish there was... Reptiles are SUCH a rare pets, and given that this is a small country to start with, you can count the people that owns reptiles, I am the ONLY woman who has reproduced leopard geckos here, take it from that, they are not difficult to reproduce, only so few people have them... so, I once even consulted veterinarian from the Reptile Zoo where I used to work, and he told me he bred leos in the past, and I was soo happy because I thought he might know about them, I asked for fecal tests for some of my guys, including Piccolino (that tiny Murphy Patternless I rescued a few years ago, you probably remember his thread here), and he told me they were all clean... honestly, I doubt it, snakes are somewhat more common pets than geckos, and he knows a bit about them, but in the end, his experience has been from working there, if there was a vet in the USA that the vet here could contact, that would be great, but I don´t know if she would do that... for starters, the vet from yesterday didn´t know they could drop their tails... it´s like asking a dentist about the liver!

 

[Saskia]

Forgot to add: Randy is 58.3 grames right now

 

[cricket4u]

It will look different because the contrast(I think that's what it's called, can't remember) is poor in Randy's radiograph. I think he/she needed to zoom in a little more. Just look at it without clicking on the photos and you will see how dark his is. He's almost missing in full, not just his skeletal system.