Eating troubleshooting

[majahawt]

I'd like for someone to help me troubleshoot Eclair's eating issues - I know that I can sometimes go blind about things that have been going on for a long time. She's obviously too small for her age but she's not underweight. I altered the sick-sheet for this. I'm currently experimenting with her temperatures, it seems she prefers it a little colder.

BASIC INFORMATION
Species of lizard: Leopard gecko
Gecko's name: Eclair
Morph: Blizzard
Gender: Female
Age: 9 months
Weight: 43 grams

What type of thermometer: Temperature gun
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 90,5 F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 77,9 F
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 75,2 F
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature: UTH + Thermostat

She’s not sick per se but she’s 9 months old and only weighs 43 grams. She doesn’t look underweight but she can go 3 weeks without eating and then suddenly have a meal and then stop eating again. She does look at the food and occasionally licks it, but she usually doesn’t eat it. Her weight continues to bounce between 43 grams and 46 grams. She’s alert and active and very curious. She’s suddenly become over-social and every time I try to feed her, change water, etc. she climbs up on my hand. I’ve tried a range of dishes, including clear ones.

GENERAL
Gecko's total length: Approx 20 cm
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Uh 15 cm probably
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Exotic pet store
Captive bred or wild caught: CB

VIVARIUM
Enclosure dimensions: 34" x 15" x 16.5" (L x D x H)
Substrate provided: Tile, small amount of Excavator Clay on cold side
Number of hides: 3
Location of hides: Warm dry, warm moist and cold
Please describe any other furnishings: 2 standing plastic plants, 2 hanging plastic plants, 1 “bridge”
List recent changes in the environment, if any: Moved 3-4 weeks ago but it’s been going on for a long time

LIGHTING
Artificial lighting: LED about 8 hours a day
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: No

HEATING
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf: Wooden tank, UTH is on sand under tiles
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Yes
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Warm moist hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? No

DIET
How often do you feed your gecko? Every day
Insects and worms, list type: Dubias, mealworms, superworms, butterworms, waxworms
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Yes, dubias and mealworms kept cold - put in tub with heat mat and bug grub + veggies 1 day before feeding
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Zoo Med Calcium + D3 (1-2 a week, dusting), Zoo Med plain Calcium (in tank), Zoo Med Reptivite (1 a week, dusting).
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: None

GENERAL HEALTH
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Decreased
Weight (loss or gain): Up and down from 43-46 grams
Discharge from the eyes or nose: No
Increased breathing rate or effort: No
Change in the droppings: No, except that there will only be urates when it’s been a long time since she’s eaten
Urates
---white or yellowish: White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: 1:2
Abnormal skin color or shedding: No
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: No
Weakness: No
Regurgitation: No

List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): Two juvenile leopard geckos acquired this week, are kept in a different room
Are any of your other pets ill? No

 

[kholtme]

The only thing that i could think of would be waxworms. They are addictive and will cause your gecko to not eat unless its a waxworm. Im sure you know the problems with them. I would recommend never feeding waxworms, not even once a month. Ive read of cases where someone offered one waxworm once, on the geckos birthday and it caused the gecko to go into an off feed.

 

[majahawt]

The only thing that i could think of would be waxworms. They are addictive and will cause your gecko to not eat unless its a waxworm. Im sure you know the problems with them. I would recommend never feeding waxworms, not even once a month. Ive read of cases where someone offered one waxworm once, on the geckos birthday and it caused the gecko to go into an off feed.

Sorry, I forgot to mention: she's always refused waxworms until we moved (3-4 weeks ago). She had one and she's eaten a little other foods since. I also forgot to mention she's had the occasional butterworm too.

We did think it might be the case still so she's definitely not getting any until she eats her regular food

 

[majahawt]

Update: I think she's pining for Donut since his tank is under hers and it's breeding season. She's always trying to go down into his tank. I'm gonna try to move her tank into another room and see if that helps!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Maya ~

Just in case you have not seen these:

Kyle's recent sticky: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...eding-issues/78187-your-gecko-not-eating.html

cricket4u comments:

#66---Leo Not Eating? Troubleshoot these causes......cricket4u (July & Nov 2013)
"Leos are very greedy and normally eat right away if everything is set up properly. However, I know there are exceptions. Try switching the hides. (The Exo-Terra hide is more secure and may be the reason. If he's not utilizing the heat, chances are he may not eat.) If that does not work, lower the temp as Elizabeth suggested. You may want to cover the sides of the glass so that he will feel more secure."

• Improper temps---air temps too hot or too cold
• Improper humidity---too dry is most common
• Stress---too much handling---lack of hides or not enough---cagemate bullying, cage too small, et cetera......
• Repetitious Diet---variety is important
• Spoiled food---upset stomach or simply a bad experience (common with superworms)
• Food offered at the wrong time of day---lights on
• Wrong size prey---too big or too small
• Improper photoperiod
• Prey not recognized---leo needs moving prey to elicit feeding response
• Malfunctioning heating equipment---goes unnoticed---should be checked daily
• UTH is too warm---unregulated---gecko avoids the warm spot, therefore will not eat (need thermostat)
• Most common of all CHEAP thermometers => false temp readings
• Too much calcium causing constipation and/or loss of appetite
• Parasites
• Infection
• Metabolic---calcium or vitamin deficiency
• Impaction
• Dehydration
• Pain from an injury or otherwise

 

[majahawt]

Thanks! I've checked pretty much everything on the list but it doesn't seem to be any of them. I moved her tank into a different room today so hopefully she'll start eating again (she had a butterworm but she always grabs them anyway)

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

From what I've seen, butterworms are pretty much like waxworms in terms of fat. :razz:

Click: Nutritional Value of Commercially Raised Insects - Gecko Time - Gecko Time

Scroll to the bugs and worms chart.

 

[majahawt]

Yeah that's why I'm hesitant to give them to her right now (but at least they've got some protein and calcium), but she got a new moist hide (that she doesn't like) and was moved into a different room so she's been way too stressed out to eat anyway so I figured she could have one.

She's lost 2 grams since last week so now I'm just trying anything possible. I've swapped her hides around so she'll be on the warmest spot more, I've ordered silkworms, I'm gonna try to give her 15 minutes of actual daylight each day... I gave her a bath today because I saw her doing her whole poo-routine without anything coming out. She doesn't look impacted but I figured it was just as well. Hopefully she'll poo sometime during the night, or she'll have to have another bath tomorrow.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

By this time Eclair should "know" that you have her best interests at heart.

Do you think she's dehydrated or needing more fiber? That same thing happens to us if we don't get those things.

Have you tried a drop of olive or mineral oil on her nose?

 

[majahawt]

By this time Eclair should "know" that you have her best interests at heart.

Do you think she's dehydrated or needing more fiber? That same thing happens to us if we don't get those things.

Have you tried a drop of olive or mineral oil on her nose?

I've considered it so I'm planning on giving her another bath today. I'm also going to make her some bug slurry so I'll pop a drop of olive oil into it. I'm gonna call the vet and see if I can bring in a fecal sample tomorrow, which is why I need to give her the bug slurry :>

 

[majahawt]

I've gotten her an appointment with the vet tomorrow so that gives us another day to (HOPEFULLY) get a stool sample. Last night she had a bath while I dropped bug slurry on her nose but it wasn't that effective. I tried wrapping her up like a lizard burrito but I couldn't get the dropper into her mouth because she refused to open up (usually she attempts to bite if I put my fingers on the sides of her mouth). She didn't even want to take butterworms (just for the sake of a POO).

Really hoping there's nothing really bad going on with her... I doubt it'd be crypto or anything because her weight loss has been so slow but I'm obviously still scared of it

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hope that Eclair's appointment goes well and that you get good a-n-s-w-e-r-s.

 

[majahawt]

I just came back from the vet. As expected, she wants a stool sample so I'm going to try my best to get her to eat and poo the coming days and I'll go back in on Monday. If we can't get any poos, we're going to have to treat for general parasites and do some bloodwork. The vet said that other than the obvious issue, she's in great shape

 

[majahawt]

SHE ATE TODAY!!! I don't know what did it, but I gave her 10 minutes of sunlight earlier today and later I saw her peeking out of the hide so I figured why not try offering her food. She had 9 mealworms that I dropped in front of her! I don't wanna get my hopes up but I'm really happy because at the very least it means we'll get some poo for the vet!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Keep it up, Eclair! Eating is good for you (and comforting for your human parents). :banana:

 

[majahawt]

When I took her out to get sun today, I took her out into the backyard instead of just sitting in a window and let her climb around on me while we were out there. She certainly enjoyed it a lot more that way! When we got back in, I got her to eat two mealworms. She was rather interested in a roach too but didn't go for it - I can't blame her though, she's probably going to shed tonight or tomorrow.

The fact that she's shedding means that I'll get some poo whether she eats or not though! Excellent :3

 

[majahawt]

Good news is - we got poo!

Bad news is - we had a party here on friday and I think it stressed her out so she didn't finish her shedding routine. She's in a sauna right now and I'll have to work with her a bit to get the rest of the shed off (we gave her a sauna yesterday too but she still didn't finish the job). I feel really bad for her, poor little thing :/

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

When I took her out to get sun today, I took her out into the backyard instead of just sitting in a window and let her climb around on me while we were out there. She certainly enjoyed it a lot more that way! When we got back in, I got her to eat two mealworms. She was rather interested in a roach too but didn't go for it - I can't blame her though, she's probably going to shed tonight or tomorrow.

The fact that she's shedding means that I'll get some poo whether she eats or not though! Excellent :3

Glass filters out the beneficial UVB we get from the sun.

 

[majahawt]

Glass filters out the beneficial UVB we get from the sun.

Yeah, I figured. It was a bit too cold to take her outside the first few days we did sun though. But she definitely enjoyed it more!

 

[majahawt]

I got her some reptile electrolyte solution today so she got an electrolyte bath. She wasn't very happy :> HERE'S a photo of her so you can see, she's not in terrible shape or anything. She actually ate quite a few mealworms last night, and she had pooped some more. I took her stool sample over on Monday so we should have results within 5-10 days.

IDK, she seems to maybe be getting a bit better? We still haven't gotten all of the shed off of her belly but I'm going to continue with the daily sun and electrolyte bath for a few days and I'll try to rub the shed off of her.