Leopard Gecko: Soon to be new owner - Heating Query.

[Zux]

Leopard Gecko: Owner Thread.

I have been spending the past month or so getting everything together in advance of my new females arrival (the breeder I was lucky enough to find is keeping her for me until I and her new home are ready) and I wanted to first of all thank you guys for this forum and in particular the vast amount of work contributing to the Care Sheet Elizabeth Freer provides which has been an invaluable resource for me thus far.

I have a rather unique question, my situation is this. Her new habitat will be contained within an Exo-Terra Large/Wide Vivarium (essentially a 40 gallon breeder for those of you who may be unfamiliar with the model - 36x18x18 ), anyway I pretty much have everything ready to go but somehow I wound up with an extra 11 x 23 Ultra-Therm heat mat and a Thermostat along with it which brings me to my question.

Aside from the prerequisite hot side of the tank which sits around 90-91 inside the Warm dry hide currently do you guys think it would be a good thing to use the second mat in between the hot and cold sides and ease that transition with a happy medium of sorts between the two "zones".

That is to say create a hot side a warm side and a cool side as it were, as I mentioned I have a Thermostat I can use to control the middle zone with the extra UTH. Any thoughts on whether or not this would be a help or hindrance to my new friend? The reality is I just have the equipment going spare so I could do this for her if she might appreciate it pretty much.

The substrate Im using is a textured ceramic tile about 2-3/8 of an inch thick (17x17).

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

- Shane

 

[acpart]

Welcome to GU and the world of geckos. As far as I'm concerned, if you can provide a true heat gradient in your enclosure, then using the extra pad shouldn't be a problem. I have 3 females in an enclosure that size that do fine without the extra pad, but you can certainly do it if you can make the temps work.

Aliza

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

A warm welcome to Geckos Unlimited, Shane. I'm happy that you have found some useful tips in that care sheet. It's always a "work in progress".

Your new leo will be very lucky to move in to a home that's "ready"! :cheer:

Sounds like you already have the 36 x 18 x 18. Generally I recommend the Exo Terra 36 x 18 x 12, because a shorter vivarium is easier to heat. In the cool months you may wish to add some overhead heat with a ceramic heat emitter enclosed in a 10 inch diameter dome.

Some examples:



Your prep sounds good. I suggest a thin layer of washed sand between the ceramic tile and the glass bottom to "fill in" the concave grooves under the tiles. That should eliminate any hot spots between your UTH and the tiles.

 

[Zux]

@ Acpart, thanks for your input and reply. I think I'll go ahead and try it out.

@ Elizabeth Regarding the lower tank it would have been cheaper to buy and heat but sadly I couldn't find any for sale near where I live currently so yea medium height it had to be (gives me more room to view I suppose :biggrin: . I have the CHE and 10" Dome with Thermostat ordered and a thin sand layer is in ready for tiling, thanks for the warm welcome and reply.

- Shane

 

[Zux]

Hey everybody,

Apologies for the couple of weeks of radio silence, my Leo and I were getting all settled in.
Now that we have I have a couple more questions if that's OK.

1: Ive been working hard on getting Temperatures just right and have my UTH and CHE both controlled with Pulse Proportional Thermostats. Warm side Ground Temperatures are 91 F and warm side Air is 81 F. Cool side ground is 71 F (>/<) and cool side air is 73.5 F (>/<). I can keep these or any other temps stable, do these sound optimal or should I change any of them?

2: Didn't want to make a whole new thread so I'll just ask this here also. Regarding feeding feeders and supplementation.

My Crickets and Roaches are fed 24/7 on Zoo-Med Adult Bearded Dragon Food so with that in mind I was wondering how often you guys think I should dust with Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 and Zoo Med's Reptivite without D3?. My Gecko Bella will be 6 months old in 2 weeks if that is of any relevance.

I also have Komodo Premium Insect Enhancing Formula as a formal Gutload that I can use if it would be helpful.
Guaranteed analysis: Protein 46%, Oils and fats 1%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 42%, Calcium (Ca) 14.9%, Vitamin A 20000iu/kg, Vitamin D3 4000iu/kg, Vitamin E 225mg/kg.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Shane

 

[amsdadtodd]

Shane, I do the same with my crickets and roaches, and even gutload mealworms for about two days on the adult bearded dragon food. I dust one hornworm a week with reptivite with d3, and one a week with calcium without d3 for each animal. The bearded dragon food is so nutritious that it provides most of what they need. I'm sure others have different opinions and experiences, it all comes down to what works best for your animals in the environment you provide them.

Todd

 

[kholtme]

Shane, I want to thank you for doing all your research and getting your tank set up before getting your gecko! great work! I have the same size tank, but it is a 40 gallon breeder so the screen is on top. 81 degrees for warm side air temp is okay! Dont let it get above 85 and you will be fine. I am for about 78, but 75-85 is fine. Other than that all your temps are spot on. You can choose to leave it at 81 warm air temp if you wish, because that is fine too! I dont use my CHE besides in the winter, my room is very warm in the summer. With your leo only being 6 months old and your feeders having a great food, I would dust with the calcium 1x a week, and the reptitive every other week. Once your gecko reaches about 1 year old and slows down on growing, I would slow down on feeding and dusting to prevent the gecko from getting over weight. Do you feed any fruits and veggies to your insects? They need these to get moisture if you dont offer any other types of moisture. Its great to keep all questions in this thread so we can see what has been discussed and your history. Keep up the good work.

 

[Zux]

Thanks so much for the helpful replies guys.

[MENTION=52816]kholtme[/MENTION] Thanks for the kind words.
I think ill adopt the dusting regime you suggest (unless anybody has a reason why not) as it was what seemed most logical to me also.

I give the feeders Dandelion leaves every once in a while and they have water crystals at all times if they need moisture in the absence of other sources.


- Shane

 

[KillaB]

Welcome and good luck

 

[kholtme]

very beautiful and healthy looking!

 

[amsdadtodd]

Shane, that is a good looking animal, looks very healthy! I'm sure with all the prep and study you've done she will do very well with you! Looking forward to more pics as she grows and her patterns change out!

Todd

 

[Zux]

[MENTION=52816]kholtme[/MENTION] [MENTION=51448]amsdadtodd[/MENTION]

Thanks a lot guys.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

View attachment 36108

Decided I should include a picture of my first/new Leo Bell.
She's 5 (almost 6) months old, I'll update soon with pictures of her Vivarium.

Welcome aboard, Bell!

You've got an awesome leo, Shane!

With all your leo knowledge, things should go well for Bell and you for many years.

 

[Zux]

[MENTION=3989]Elizabeth Freer[/MENTION] , Thanks Elizabeth.

On the subject of knowledge Ive run into a little snag. It seems my Leo really doesn't like the taste of Reptivite on her insects at all. Ignores them completely after one taste of it.

- Does anybody have any suggestions or things that work for them to get their Leos Multivitamins into them?

I was thinking perhaps mixing a little with the ground up bearded dragon food fed to the feeder insects might work?

 

[amsdadtodd]

I would be surprised if anyone weighed in saying they hadn't had that problem! I've tried mixing it, as you described, with the gutload for my feeders with mixed results.
The one foolproof way that I've found is to use the most tantalizing food you have available to you, in my case hornworms are easy to get. An appropriately sized hornworm, dusted with supplement, is just to too appetizing for my leo's to pass up. I'm not sure if it's important that the leo already be familiar with hornworms, but if using very small ones, you could feed one "clean" and then the second one dusted.

Good luck!
Todd

 

[Zux]

I would be surprised if anyone weighed in saying they hadn't had that problem! I've tried mixing it, as you described, with the gutload for my feeders with mixed results.
The one foolproof way that I've found is to use the most tantalizing food you have available to you, in my case hornworms are easy to get. An appropriately sized hornworm, dusted with supplement, is just to too appetizing for my leo's to pass up. I'm not sure if it's important that the leo already be familiar with hornworms, but if using very small ones, you could feed one "clean" and then the second one dusted.

Good luck!
Todd

That makes a lot of sense, Hornworms are not something I can get a hold of but I could try with Dubia. The first non dusted sounds like its worth trying also. Thanks for your input Todd.

 

[acpart]

If you just can't get the gecko to eat dusted feeders, you can always give him the supplement by dipping your finger in water, dipping it in the supplement and "painting" some around the mouth, so he licks it off. If you do this, it's probably best not to do it more than every 2 weeks or so since it will deliver more "dust" than he'd get if he'd eat the feeders.

Aliza

 

[Zux]

If you just can't get the gecko to eat dusted feeders, you can always give him the supplement by dipping your finger in water, dipping it in the supplement and "painting" some around the mouth, so he licks it off. If you do this, it's probably best not to do it more than every 2 weeks or so since it will deliver more "dust" than he'd get if he'd eat the feeders.

Aliza

Hello Aliza, thanks for that idea I'll bear that in mind.

Ideally I think it like to take a less intrusive or more natural approach to supplementing the diet but failing that I'll try your recommendation out for sure as she needs the Multivitamins no matter how she gets them really I suppose.

Shane

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I know what you mean, Shane. Some of my geckos won't eat their Reptivite dusted crickets either.

I wonder what would happen if you withheld one feeding prior to the Reptivite day and then placed the Reptivite feeder in first?

I have been contemplating an order of VetArk's Nutrobal. It's now available via Amazon. It has a calcium : phosphorus ratio of 46:1! I think it's certainly worth a try. Nutrobal is used all the time in the UK.

Click: Amazon.com : Vetark Nutrobal - A Calcium Balancer & Multivitamin Supplement To Help Bone Growth In Snakes, Lizards & Tortoises. Available In 2 Sizes (50G) : Pet Supplies

 

[Zux]

[MENTION=3989]Elizabeth Freer[/MENTION]

Hi Elizabeth sorry for the late response.

I was actually considering something similar in principle to Nutrobal in Repashy's Calcium Plus.

I have been read a great deal about peoples experiences with the product and a lot of Allen Repashy's writing about how he came to formulate it etc. Many people claim their Reptiles seem to really enjoy the taste of the product and display an increased feeding response when insects are dusted in it. I was also thinking to myself (before this issue cropped up) that I feel it would be more natural and beneficial to the animal if nutrients could be offered gradually over a period of time along with diet as distinct from a large shot all at once which is essentially what my reptivite would be giving.

On a completely unrelated note I remember reading in your care-sheet that you weren't exactly sure as to which size Exo Terra : New Reptile Cave / Natural Hiding Place would be appropriate. Well having used the medium Exo Terra : Reptile Cave / Natural Hiding Place for her first month I noticed she didn't really seem to feel totally hidden or safe inside and would move back to her Exo Terra : Gecko Cave / Terrestrial Gecko Hide to sleep. I decided to replace the older model with the medium size of the new Reptile Cave and my gecko uses this FAR more now. I think the new models similarity to a crevice inside rocks really appeals to Leos and helps them feel truly hidden and secure as distinct from "just out of sight", the medium is a perfect size for a warm dry hide and fits very nicely with many other decor items from that range. For reference I also have the small and large sizes on the cool side of my vivarium and they are probably just that, slightly too large and slightly too small to be used for extended periods of time or sleep.

- Shane