Despite exhaustive research and planning, he died.

[GoodGecko]

I am hoping to find out what went wrong and how to never, ever repeat it should I adopt (ideally) or purchase another Leopard Gecko at a reptile show in the future. I really don't want another Gecko because I want back the one I just lost. I am totally devastated and am having a really hard time with his death that clearly, was inflicted by me. I thought I was doing the utmost in providing the best husbandry, food, vet care etc. I read multiple books, researched studies on everything from Vitamin A, enrichment, UVB, etc., followed Elizabeth's care sheet as well as both excellent commentators like Cricket4U, and Shanes' (maybe same person who also leaves comments on Youtube I think?) comments religiously, but I evidently still messed up.

I was a first time reptile owner as of 11/12/17 when I purchased my gecko from a breeder at the local reptile show in Cincinnati. He was a healthy, with a fat tail, 1.5 year old, 60gram, 9" long male wild/natural morph Leopard Gecko.

I set-up his enclosure 3 weeks in advance of getting him and tested the equipment.

He died at 3:17am January 2nd, 2018 after having spent New Years day at an ER Vet clinic due to a prolapsed cloaca - his 2nd that week, the first from an enema administered by my regular reptile Vet due to a sphagnum moss impaction. At the ER, his cloaca had been reabsorbed from the bath I gave him with a sugar mix, but one of his hemipene was prolapsed as well and remained that way the night he died. He was to have had ER surgery by my Vet yesterday, 1/2/18.

It will take alot for me to explain it in this format, but if you're interested in the chain of events and are interested in helping me, I can disclose all of either this way or the regular forum or phone.

I will list my equipment, feeders, temps here. I was trying to achieve a natural set up with lots of climbing and many passage options for enrichment. Originally had succulent plants with UVB set-up, but removed those items by week 3.

Exo Terra(ET) Medium-Low enclosure, 24 x 18 x 12, plan was to upgrade to 36 x 18 x 18
Excavator clay on cool side with clay tunnel as cool hide; in room with good natural light
2" Sani-Chips on warm side with a few handfuls of Eco-Earth mixed in, both totally digestible; breeder had used sani chips also
scattered large stones and rocks, cleaned and sanitized, mostly on warm side
cork bark,
3 hides: 1 warm hide; 1 most hide with sphagnum moss (1/2 off on warm side; 1/2 on cooler but not cold side); 1 cool side. Thought the moss would help with overall humidity in enclosure and couldn't use eco earth since hide is too shallow and thought he would eat paper towel
1 ET thermometer/hygrometer suctioned 4" from enclosure base on warm side
1 digital thermometer only on cold side suctioned 4" high from ground
1 ZM nano dome light w/ 45W CHE; added to set-up 11/18/17 due to not reaching 82-85 degree ambient temps
1 ET Compact light fixture on dimmer with 30W regular LED house bulb dimmed to less than 1/2 strength, on timer to simulate morning light and early evening sundown; 6:35am - 10am and 4:30pm - 6:35pm)
ZooMed UTH, 12 x 8 attached to Jumpstart thermostat set to 90-91 degrees attached to center of warm hide with probe on top of substrate

Temps: Ambient per ET therm/hygrometr on WARM side: varied often from 76.6 - 83, rarely over 80
Ground: 85 - 92, warm side; 71 - 75, cool side
Warm side under hide: 87 - 89 typically until last 2 weeks where they were 87 - 94
Ambient Cold Air side: 71- 76
Cold Hide: 71 - 75
Humidity (as read by ET therm/hygrom on warm side): low 20's- to 45, but had to mist CONSTANTLY.

When measured with heat gun, there was always a big difference b/t the warm side thermostat measurements and the gun measurements under the warm hide and around it on the ground. The Jumpstart would say 93, but under the hide it would read 89. I was CONSTANTLY taking readings through out the day(currently unemployed). I consulted with alot of experienced folks who all stated my temps were good, but I always felt they were too low on the warm end, both ambient and under warm hide, but he was a great eater and his stool was always healthy etc.

Food: (The breeder fed my gecko daily with a combo of various worms and dubious, never any crickets); starting 11/12, my gecko was fed: M (dubias with Reptivite D3), Th (dubias with Herptavite V/M); Sat (giant mealworms, no dusting). I did not dust with V/M every Thurs. but every 4th feed instead. Giant mealworms gut loaded with carrot; Dubias constant supply of fresh kale, orange slices. He only received Calcium w/D3.

When he stopped eating on 12/21, I put a small cap of phosphorous-free, PLAIN calcium NO D3 in water bottle cap in cage because I was worried about him not getting calcium from not eating. Otherwise, there was never a calcium dish in his cage. He was tong-fed every time, except with mealworms where I placed one at time in a dish as I watched him eat them; was fed as much as he could eat in 10-15 min.

I know this is a really long post. Thank you for your time.

 

[ReptiFiles]

The only red flag I'm seeing here is the sani-chips and eco earth. They are advertised as digestible, but sani-chips are made from aspen wood and eco earth is made from ground coconut shell. Both materials are composed primarily of cellulose, a type of fiber that is only digestible for organisms that have evolved to digest it with the enzyme cellulase — termites, cows, horses, etc. Leopard geckos and other insectivorous animals do not produce cellulase, nor do they have the beneficial bacteria in their guts to do it for them. Prolapse can be caused by gut impaction, and so I'm inclined to say that this was caused by the bedding.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I recently lost a bearded dragon over the summer and I was asking myself many of the same questions as you are now. It really is a punch in the gut, but the good news is that you'll never make the same mistake again, and will be able to use your experience to help others.

 

[GoodGecko]

Thank you, Mariah.

He actually became impacted from the sphagnum moss and I figured that out timely enough for him to give him a bath and then have Vet's enema. Had it not been noticed over the holiday weekend, he could have had it removed sooner.

As for Sani Chips, the biggest issue was that they evidently don't retain heat very well. The eco earth sunk to the bottom of his enclosure under the sani chips, so he never even came in contact with it. I originally had sprinkled it over the cork bark for decorative effect. I was highly inspired by a responsible, intelligent Youtube who uses it in his gecko enclosures.

So I guess the question is: 1) What caused my gecko NOT to pass the moss he ingested presumably the night of his shed - the day before his first day of not eating because before that he was doing great. It had to have been some other part of my husbandry because a healthy gecko in the right temps should, in general, be able to pass things like sand, paper towel or moss. Correct?

He did have elevated parasite levels that were discovered after the enema-extracted moss was pulled out last Thursday and was treated for that up until his death. Maybe parasites were part of the problem?

So many unknowns...I am too sad and afraid to get another Gecko in the far future for fear of killing it. I know 2 people who do EVERYTHING wrong with their geckos. One persons adult gecko doesn't have a heat mat, lives on red sand in a 10 gallon tank, with an infrared bulb that is on 24/7 with one hide in the tank and is only fed crickets....he's thriving after 5 years! What's up with that? It just doesn't make sense....

 

[ReptiFiles]

Ah, I missed the bit about the sphagnum moss. I see now. Leopard gecko's digestive tracts simply aren't build to handle plant matter, so it still makes sense.

I'm guessing that the problem was a combination of two factors: 1) poor genetics and 2) slightly too cool temps. Even good breeders occasionally produce animals that live much longer in captivity than they would in the wild due to delicate internal physiology. The same goes for the geckos on sand — they may be examples of geckos with physiology that can take more of a beating. It's unfair, but difficult to predict. Also, cool temps can inhibit gastrointestinal movement, which can contribute.

But at the end of the day, I'm afraid all we can do is speculate.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Please share a photo of your leo. A photo of his enclosure may help too.

Something I noticed is this:

Food: (The breeder fed my gecko daily with a combo of various worms and dubious, never any crickets); starting 11/12, my gecko was fed: M (dubias with Reptivite D3), Th (dubias with Herptavite V/M); Sat (giant mealworms, no dusting). I did not dust with V/M every Thurs. but every 4th feed instead. Giant mealworms gut loaded with carrot; Dubias constant supply of fresh kale, orange slices. He only received Calcium w/D3.

I'm a little confused.

Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3 IS an all-in-one multivitamin. Did you mean that or Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3?

 

[GoodGecko]

To clarify supplements, apologize for confusion, I couldn't recall the exact names:

Rep-Cal Phosphorous-Free Calcium w/ D3 - light, light dusting every Monday
Rep-Cal Herptivite Multivitamins - light dusting every OTHER Thursday (per Vet recommendation, so 2X month)
Zoo-Med ReptiCalcium WITHOUT Vitamin D3 , only used in small cap in cage during last 10 days since he was not getting nutrition.

 

[GoodGecko]

photos of enclosure





1st photo - warm side with Totem
2nd photo - cool side with clay hide, can't see digital temp cage 4" up on side; plants were removed in early December



warm side changed to ceramic tile w/ paper towel underneath after bringing him home post enema and prolapsed coach, had to change substrate immediately per Vet, no time to put sand underneath, enclosure like this until his death



Lighting
nano dome with 45W CHE over warm hide in front of enclosure
ET compact fixture with regular house light, only on to simulate sunrise/sunset, dimmed to lowest setting

 

[acpart]

I would also wonder whether ingesting the sphagnum may have done it. I am no stranger to geckos who pass away for no obvious reason. It's painful. As mentioned above, sometimes a particular gecko has issues with an aspect of husbandry that wouldn't bother most otherwhere are a few things about your husbandry that I would have done differently (i.e. I feel that constant ambient temps in the high 70's and 80's can dehydrate the gecko and I"m not sure about the need to mist frequently) but these are not deal breakers. I have kept geckos on eco earth for more than 5 years with no problems. I did care for a pair of someone else's geckos once for a month where one had dropped her tail for no obvious reason a few days before I took them. The mystery was solved the next day when she passed some of the walnut chips she had been housed on.
I do think it's worth trying again with another leopard gecko. To be on the safe side with the ingestion issue, consider using ceramic tile as a substrate (other things work well too, but I like the ceramic) and eco earth in the humid hide.

Aliza

 

[GoodGecko]

Thank you, Aliza. I appreciate your input so very much.

I think buying him from someone who had only one leopard gecko at his table at the reptile show was a warning sign for me initially - the seller was not a breeder of geckos and perhaps he received Totem on a trade of some sort. He also was not forthcoming with diet etc. Either way, I would have taken Totem home even though I knew better.

I also think the 4 trips in -4 degree temps to both the vet and the ER clinic stressed him out. On the night he died, he looked wet. He kept moving to his cold hide from his warm hide. the warm hide was probably painful to his prolapsed hemipenes (the rectal prolapse receded from the sugar bath I gave him before the ER trip). At the ER, he spent 7 hours in a blanket they use to heat puppies/kittens, not reptiles, but I had no choice - both his heminipene and rectum had prolapsed. My vet did not remove all of the moss which led to Totem pushing out the remaining bits, with some paper towel that I replaced the moss with, I might add.

I thought the ambient temps were supposed to be 85? His were always - until the last week- below 79 consistently. I had to mist the enclosure due to the CHE drying it out and it would often drop below 20%, otherwise I would not have misted.

If I ever get over this situation, I will start with a traditional 20G long and follow with ceramic tile, but I really don't want ANY sand in the enclosure at this point. You've mentioned in past posts that you personally don't use sand underneath your ceramic tile, so I may try that. Thanks again!

 

[acpart]

I didn't realize that Totem was the only leopard gecko on the table. I caution against that situation because often, as you've said, someone got a gecko they know nothing about in trade. That could explain a lot. I hope your recovery proceeds at whatever pace you need it to and that you remember Totem in a positive way.

Aliza