New Leopard Gecko Owner

C

ccapasso

New member
Good Morning All,

New member here. My daughter got her first pet (Leopard Gecko) for Christmas. It is a baby that she has named Anthem.

We had intended on picking up all of the necessary items for the habitat but a relative ended up getting the stuff for her. They ended up doing one of the 10 gallon starter kits and now we have several things that aren't needed and of course several more that are. Here is where my questions begin:

I know the ideal starter tank is a 20L. I've already noticed it being a little cramped in the 10G with the hides. That said, is it urgent that we move to the 20L or will the 10G work for a bit until Anthem is bigger ?

The kit came with (2) lights and domes. A daylight and nightlight. I understand from reading that it is better to not use lights, and instead use a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) with Thermostat. What wattage CHE is acceptable ? I've found a (2) pack 150W that I was thinking of picking up (but can go lower wattage if needed). Also, can I use the existing domes for the CHE ? I assume only (1) CHE is needed correct (which will of course be placed on the Warm Side) ? If only (1) CHE is needed, what (if anything) would the other dome be needed for ? Lastly, is it safe to rest the dome (with CHE) one the mesh lid (same as we currently are the lights) ?

I do have a Under Tank Heater (UTH) but need to pick up a Thermostat as I understand that the UTH needs to be on a separate Thermostat from the CHE correct ? Also, this is likely a dumb question, but the UTH did come with an adhesive that I assume is to be used to get the mat to stick to the bottom of the tank. Is this safe to use given that it is a heat mat?

The current substrate is that reptile carpet, which I see many suggestions about not using and replacing with either a non-stick shelf liner or textured tiles. I'll be looking into this but haven't found any tiles that fit right yet. If I use tile, I assume it should cover the entire bottom correct ? If more than 1 piece of tile is needed, do you worry about the cracks/gaps/space between the tiles?

I do have (3) hides setup, though in all honesty, the moist hide was a last minute purchase when we got the Gecko as we didn't have one. I have a new hide for it coming in today. I believe the hides are all good, though I'm wondering if the one on the far left of the picture is suitable? Anthem seems to love it and stays in there all day, which is a bit odd as that is the cool side. That hide is also doubling as a food dish, though he hasn't used it as such yet.

I apologize for the longer post, but figured best to do it in one instead of ask/answer then rinse and repeat over and over.

Thanks you in advance for any and all answers/advice/suggestions.

IMG_1137.jpg
tank.jpg
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Good Morning All,

Welcome to Geckos Unlimited!​

New member here. My daughter got her first pet (Leopard Gecko) for Christmas. It is a baby that she has named Anthem.

We had intended on picking up all of the necessary items for the habitat but a relative ended up getting the stuff for her. They ended up doing one of the 10 gallon starter kits and now we have several things that aren't needed and of course several more that are. Here is where my questions begin:

I know the ideal starter tank is a 20L. I've already noticed it being a little cramped in the 10G with the hides. That said, is it urgent that we move to the 20L or will the 10G work for a bit until Anthem is bigger ?

How about exchanging the stuff Anthem doesn't need for a 20 long? Sometimes pet stores are willing to exchange "kit type" purchases.

When you set her up in a 20 long, she has a bigger playground. Upgrading in about 6 months won't be necessary.

An 11 x 17 inch Ultratherm fits a 20 long best. Heating 1/2 the enclosure won't be overkill. Hides should be opaque with small entrances. The stair-step hide on the right makes a good cool hide.​
Reptile Basics: (336-308-5767) Also carries Ultratherm 11 x 17 inch heat pads/mats. Still $22 each as of October 2020.
Reptile Basics

Reptile Supply Company (Lodi, California): 916-226-4089 https://www.reptilesupplyco.com/8-products
Use e-mail for customer service ---> info@ReptileSupplyCo.com
[Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins withOUT D3 source
Ultratherm 11 x 17 heat pads = $22 here too in October 2020.]
Click to expand...

The kit came with (2) lights and domes. A daylight and nightlight. I understand from reading that it is better to not use lights, and instead use a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) with Thermostat. What wattage CHE is acceptable ? I've found a (2) pack 150W that I was thinking of picking up (but can go lower wattage if needed). Also, can I use the existing domes for the CHE ? I assume only (1) CHE is needed correct (which will of course be placed on the Warm Side) ? If only (1) CHE is needed, what (if anything) would the other dome be needed for ? Lastly, is it safe to rest the dome (with CHE) one the mesh lid (same as we currently are the lights) ?

I do have a Under Tank Heater (UTH) but need to pick up a Thermostat as I understand that the UTH needs to be on a separate Thermostat from the CHE correct ? Also, this is likely a dumb question, but the UTH did come with an adhesive that I assume is to be used to get the mat to stick to the bottom of the tank. Is this safe to use given that it is a heat mat?

I recommend the 11 x 17 inch Ultratherm under tank mat to keep Anthem cozy. Ipower thermostats are good. My 15.5 year old leo has a Hydrofarm thermostat.

For a 10 gallon, I would NOT use overhead (CHE) heat in addition to a heat mat! A CHE requires a separate thermostat.​
​

The current substrate is that reptile carpet, which I see many suggestions about not using and replacing with either a non-stick shelf liner or textured tiles. I'll be looking into this but haven't found any tiles that fit right yet. If I use tile, I assume it should cover the entire bottom correct ? If more than 1 piece of tile is needed, do you worry about the cracks/gaps/space between the tiles?

Here's a link for slate tiles. Coaster-sized tiles would give Anthem a nice graduated base. Slate cheese trays work well too. Slate is great for absorbing heat.

For link 163 click: Slate Cheese Trays 16" x 12" (11.8 inches = actual width) x 0.3 inch for Leo Substrate . . . . . . Gutler & Odinsmom -- November 2020 (update)​

I do have (3) hides setup, though in all honesty, the moist hide was a last minute purchase when we got the Gecko as we didn't have one. I have a new hide for it coming in today. I believe the hides are all good, though I'm wondering if the one on the far left of the picture is suitable? Anthem seems to love it and. stays in there all day, which is a bit odd as that is the cool side. That hide is also doubling as a food dish, though he hasn't used it as such yet.

Warm dry & warm moist/humid hides should be opaque & have a single entrance. That helps your leo feel safe. You won't be sorry if you order her a large OMEM terra cotta humid hide from Amazon.
Her stair-step hide on the right makes a good cool hide & a poop location.

61YxB1xkfjL._SL1181_.jpg = Google "Exo Terra medium hide"

51j0v+DN4pL._AC_SL1001_.jpg 61mhn0mS13L._AC_SL1400_.jpg 86661829_10221698393519102_8748129786678738944_o.jpg​

I apologize for the longer post, but figured best to do it in one instead of ask/answer then rinse and repeat over and over.

Thanks you in advance for any and all answers/advice/suggestions.

View attachment 49494
View attachment 49495

 
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C

ccapasso

New member
Thanks for the reply.

I was doing some checking and Petco currently has a 20L for $20. I'll have to get a new lid, but that can be done :).

I'm not familiar with the Ultratherm yet, will have to do some reading up on this, ty.

When I do upgrade to the 20L, is there a certain wattage CHE I should be looking for, and would just (1) CHE do the trick or are (2) needed ?

Thanks for the referral to the slate tray. I missed that when reading through the guide earlier. Will look into it for sure. I did see there are both the longer trays and the coasters, so will figure out which would fit best. Any concern with the edges of these trays/coasters (are they sharp) ?

The moist hide shown is being replaced with this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Ge...qid=1416443144&sr=8-3&keywords=exo+terra+cave

Should I consider replacing the far left hide with something or is it acceptable ?

Thanks again
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply.

You're welcome.​

I was doing some checking and Petco currently has a 20L for $20. I'll have to get a new lid, but that can be done :).

This sale cannot be beat! Do it!​
I'm not familiar with the Ultratherm yet, will have to do some reading up on this, ty.

An Ultratherm may never need replacing, unlike those UTHs that have the sticky pad "attached". Stick your Ultratherm underneath the enclosure with electrician's tape rolls throughout, maybe an X across the top, & maybe around the edges.​
When I do upgrade to the 20L, is there a certain wattage CHE I should be looking for, and would just (1) CHE do the trick or are (2) needed ?

IF your heat pad covers 1/2 the enclosure's floor, that may be all you need. If you add a CHE you'll need a second thermostat, because air and ground temps are different.

You'll still need a cool end. Even in a 30 x 12 x 12, only a single CHE might be needed in addition to the 11 x 17 Ultratherm.​

Thanks for the referral to the slate tray. I missed that when reading through the guide earlier. Will look into it for sure. I did see there are both the longer trays and the coasters, so will figure out which would fit best. Any concern with the edges of these trays/coasters (are they sharp) ?

I bought 2 slate cheese trays for my leo's 20 long. The edges are not precise, but NOT sharp. These edges can be sanded or buffed. Since slate is absorbent, it should be stained with a water resistant, low VOC sealant. If you go this route, let me know. There's a quart size sealant Amazon carries.​

The moist hide shown is being replaced with this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Ge...qid=1416443144&sr=8-3&keywords=exo+terra+cave

Maybe this comes down to personal preference. My leo used to have a humid hide similar to the one you link. Typical of usual humid hides, they require frequent misting! After I discovered the OMEM hide, I purchased one last summer. I have never looked back.

My leo's enclosure sits in a living room corner. I just refill the large "bowl" on top of her OMEM hide after removing the 5.5 inch dome that contains a 15 watt photo period bulb dead center and tilting the lid so it rests against the wall. There's a "science" with terra cotta. Terra cotta "breathes". No more frequent "babysitting" my leo's former humid hide: tilting 20 long top, removing the hide's lid, misting the moss inside, and putting it all back together!​

Should I consider replacing the far left hide with something or is it acceptable ?

I can't really tell what the far left hide looks like. Please share a close up.​

Thanks again

You're welcome.​
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
ccapasso said:
Yes. It is hard to see in the pic but there are (2) entrances to it. Right now, Anthem loves to hide in there (prefers it over the warm side at the moment).


Just found the link:

PINVNBY Resin Reptile Platform Artificial Tree Trunk Reptile Tank Decor Food Water Dish Bowl for Bearded Dragon,Lizard, Gecko, Water Frog,Snake https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TLL38CF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_-u48FbQFQEK1T
Click to expand...
EDITED!

Maybe Anthem prefers this hide on the cool end, because she's more secluded than inside the stair step hide on the right side? How about making the left side the warm end instead?

Analog/circle thermometers really only show ballpark temps. It is crucial to know ground temps on either end as measured by a digital thermometer with a probe. Zoo Med makes a yellow one that costs about $10.

She'll need 88-92*F ground temp under the warm dry hide and 70-75ish ground temperature on the cool end.

How are you managing Anthem's supplements?
 
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C

ccapasso

New member
Quick update:

I went ahead and ordered the 20L from PetCo since it was on sale (along with a new lid).

Here are the next steps I'm thinking of taking:
* Purchasing a 60W Ceramic Heat Emitter
* Purchasing (2) Thermostats (one for CHE and other for heat mat)
* Purchasing a digital thermometer for the cool side
* Purchasing new substrate. Will either be the slate tile or non-adhesive shelf liner (I heard this is OK to use?).
[MENTION=3989]Elizabeth Freer[/MENTION], you mentioned you used (2) of the cheese trays in your 20L. How did they fit? Did you have to cut them?

Regarding supplements, I purchased the following and have used it once so far:
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Calcium-Powder-Supplement/dp/B001B57INA

Thus far, we've only been able to get him to eat mealworms. I've tried baby crickets but no luck yet.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
How long is Anthem?

Right now my slate trays overlap each other length-wise. I haven't had them trimmed. There's about 2 inches excess in length. The width = 1.8 inches. A 20 long is about 12 inches wide.

Many folks use non-adhesive shelf liner for their leo's floor.

I tape my digital's probe to my thermostat's probe, just offset a bit. This way I see how close the measurements are. It's crucial to know the warm end temps!

Temperatures - A temperature gradient from warm to cool maintains your leo's health. Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer or a temp gun (and controlled by a thermostat set at 91*F/32.8*C).

Tape the thermostat's probe and a digital thermometer's probe together, but offset a little. Place them right on top of the substrate underneath the warm dry hide. If you use a UTH + a CHE you'll need 2 separate thermostats, because ground and air temperatures are substantially different.

  • Warm dry hide ground temperature: 88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) inside a leo's warm dry hide.
  • Warm humid/moist hide: Place the humid hide 100% on top of the heat mat. Keep temperatures similar to the warm dry hide.
  • Cool dry hide ground temperature: 70ish-75 F (21.1-23.9 C) Usually the cool end ground temperature matches the room temperature where the enclosure sits.
  • no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) surface temperature - 4 inches (10 cm) above ground on the warm end
  • no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) surface temperature - 4 inches (10 cm) above ground on the cool end
Leave the heat mat/UTH on 24/7. If you wish, during the night turn off overhead lighting/heating (~12 hours on and ~12 hours off) unless ambient room temperatures drop lower than 67ish*F (19.4*C).
Click to expand...


I use Zoo Med's supplements for all my geckos. Here's the schedule I recommend for Anthem.

Weekly Schedule 124 for Leopard Geckos 0-12 months old
(withOUT UVB)​
Metabolic bone disease (MBD) symptoms include uneven (lopsided) gait, walking on one or both "elbows", bowed limbs, belly dragging, and an underbite. Difficulty chewing should be closely monitored.
Click to expand...
The Reptile Supply Company based in Lodi, California stocks Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins withOUT D3.
Click to expand...

During this time your leopard gecko will be transitioning from daily feeding to feeding 3x per week. This all depends upon how fast your leo grows!

Feed lightly dusted prey 3x per week.

  • Monday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3
  • Tuesday > > mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting
  • Wednesday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with pure precipitated calcium carbonate withOUT D3 (Zoo Med's Repti Calcium or NOW human brand calcium)
  • Thursday > > mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting
  • Friday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins withOUT D3
  • Saturday > > mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting
  • Sunday > > no food or free choice > > no dusting


For link 124 click: Weekly Feeding & Supplement Schedule 124 for leopard geckos 0-12 months old
Click to expand...
 
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C

ccapasso

New member
How long is Anthem?
Click to expand...

Hard to say for sure, having never measure him, but best guess is about 4" or so.

Many folks use non-adhesive shelf liner for their leo's floor.
Click to expand...

If I do this, it does not need sealed like the slate correct?

Couple of additional follow up questions:

* When I replace the current light with the 60W CHE, can I just use the current light as a viewing light and only turn on when we want to view ?
* The kit also came with a night light. From what I was reading, it sounds like this too is not needed correct ?
* At what point should we attempt to hold/handle Anthem ? We've only had him for about a week now.
* I noticed today when I moved his hide and he came out, that his color was a bit off. I tried to get a picture but he ran into the rock structure and hid in there. I didn't want to disturb him anymore so let him be. The best I can describe it would be a bit of a "lighter" color. I assume this is the start of his first shed ?
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
ccapasso said:
Hard to say for sure, having never measure him, but best guess is about 4" or so.



If I do this, it does not need sealed like the slate correct?

Couple of additional follow up questions:

* When I replace the current light with the 60W CHE, can I just use the current light as a viewing light and only turn on when we want to view ?
* The kit also came with a night light. From what I was reading, it sounds like this too is not needed correct ?
* At what point should we attempt to hold/handle Anthem ? We've only had him for about a week now.
* I noticed today when I moved his hide and he came out, that his color was a bit off. I tried to get a picture but he ran into the rock structure and hid in there. I didn't want to disturb him anymore so let him be. The best I can describe it would be a bit of a "lighter" color. I assume this is the start of his first shed ?
Click to expand...
Is Anthem's humid hide nice & warm? That works best for shedding.

A shelf liner = a thin piece of flexible plastic sheeting. It wouldn't be sealed.

If the "night light" is red or blue, many gecko folks don't advise using it.

A leo needs some dim light in order to distinguish day from night. What wattage is the current bulb you speak of? For a viewing light a low wattage light works best. You might dim the current bulb with a Lutron rheostat. Sometimes leos dodge bright lights. I keep a 15 watt incandescent bulb dimmed to half power by a Lutron rheostat in a 5.5 inch dome ON about 12 hours per day. That's quite sufficient for watching Cha when she's out & about.

dimmer.JPG​

*** Anthem needs 2 other supplements. Exo Terra's D3 at 1 feeding per week isn't enough for a growing leo. Using that more often is not advised. She also needs plain calcium carbonate + Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins withOUT D3. I know that's difficult to find online. I think I gave you some sources.

I recommend letting Anthem settle in for about 1 month prior to handling.
 
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C

ccapasso

New member
Is Anthem's humid hide nice & warm? That works best for shedding.
Click to expand...

Anthem's current humid hide isn't as warm as I'd like (since it is that fish bowl thing right now). The new one should be coming in today :).

On a positive note, it looks like he/she (unsure at this time) was indeed shedding:
View attachment 49509
View attachment 49510

From what we can see this morning, all of the shed seems to be off, but I'll be taking a closer look later today to confirm.

* The night bulb is indeed a blue/black bulb (not 100% on the exact color but it looks kind of purple when on)
* I believe the current daylight is a 50W but would have to take it out to confirm. Either way, it isn't dimmable. I could look at getting a dimmable bulb at some point, otherwise, we could just use whatever lighting is in the room (not direct sunlight of course).
* Thanks for the info on the supplements. I'll take a look at the links you provided previously and see what I can find to pickup.

Appreciate the feedback about handling and the shelf liner.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
ccapasso said:
Anthem's current humid hide isn't as warm as I'd like (since it is that fish bowl thing right now). The new one should be coming in today :).

On a positive note, it looks like he/she (unsure at this time) was indeed shedding:
View attachment 49509
View attachment 49510

From what we can see this morning, all of the shed seems to be off, but I'll be taking a closer look later today to confirm.

* The night bulb is indeed a blue/black bulb (not 100% on the exact color but it looks kind of purple when on)
* I believe the current daylight is a 50W but would have to take it out to confirm. Either way, it isn't dimmable. I could look at getting a dimmable bulb at some point, otherwise, we could just use whatever lighting is in the room (not direct sunlight of course).
* Thanks for the info on the supplements. I'll take a look at the links you provided previously and see what I can find to pickup.

Appreciate the feedback about handling and the shelf liner.
Click to expand...

You're welcome! Please try attaching those photos again. They don't work.

All supplements are NOT equal. Anthem will thrive on Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins withOUT D3 + plain calcium carbonate like Zoo Med's Repti Calcium withOUT D3 (or NOW's brand human calcium carbonate).

Humid hides should be 80*F +. Placing this hide directly on top of the heat mat is a good way to get those temps. A cool damp leo is susceptible to upper respiratory infections like pneumonia.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Sexing Leopard Geckos -- A leopard gecko's gender can be confirmed when that leo is over 5 inches in total length. That may happen when the leo is near 6 months old. Males can be distinguished from females by a distinct /\-shaped row of pores above the vent and by two hemipenal bulges below the vent. To see their vents, potential male pores, and hemipenal bulges gently press their bodies up against the glass. They'll squirm if you try to turn them over.
 
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