Tokay Morphs...

tombo46

New member
I would call the darker one a Patternless Olive only if it stays dark all the time. This one is more likely a stressed, but very nice Patternless Green based on the yellow around the feet. It's probably male as well based on the coloring shown here.

The lighter one is not quite completely patternless but a very nice aberrant or 'fancy' non the less. "She" will add the light blue dots to the mix. Their offspring should mostly be green with blue dots. She also has orange or yellow spots that appear dark green. These may, or may not show up in the offspring as well.

My guess is that these aberrant are possible het for patternless green and may throw some patternless offspring as well. You may also get 'patternless' offspring that show some blue dots when they are fired up.

The 'male' patternless as a fully acclimated import would fetch $300 to $500 dollars, and the 'female' aberrant as a fully acclimated import would go between $125 and $250.

Assuming the aberrant is a female, try to get a truly patternless one for your next Tokay. Then all her offspring with that male will be patternless.

Enjoy.

Michael's Tokay Hoard @ www.billewicz.com

Pretty much what I said when he asked on a UK forum!
 

billewicz

New member
Cool. I've imported over 150 of these guys in the last 2 years just like what he's showing here and have bred a lot of them to see what you can get. There's still a lot more to figure out, so there still could be a surprise in the mix.

Enjoy!
 

tombo46

New member
Cool. I've imported over 150 of these guys in the last 2 years just like what he's showing here and have bred a lot of them to see what you can get. There's still a lot more to figure out, so there still could be a surprise in the mix.

Enjoy!

Have you bred any olive patternless to a normal? My pairing has given 100% normal offspring so far.
 

billewicz

New member
Yeah, all my patternless to normals have produced normals. I can assume a simple recessive trait here for the patternless.

I have heard of patternless as Co-dom and I may have an Olive male that is that way but he's with a patternless girl right now so I do not know for sure.
 

tombo46

New member
Yeah, all my patternless to normals have produced normals. I can assume a simple recessive trait here for the patternless.

I have heard of patternless as Co-dom and I may have an Olive male that is that way but he's with a patternless girl right now so I do not know for sure.

That's good news to me as I have a few blue headed greens too that are showing co-dom traits. The fact that the olive seems simple recessive means I'm working with a completely different patternless morph : )
 

glittery

New member
My tokay after 2 month. Pls help me to check what kind of this morph.

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And this tokay also.

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Is it this tokay is melanistic?
 

bawner00

New member
I'm so happy that I can post here :yahoo: my first morphs will arrive next tuesday, but I need ID please, they were sold to me as a prooved pair, what do you guys think? I also would like to know how much do they cost, to see if I paid too much for them, thanks!!!

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well, this guy is already settled down, and I think he is a powdre blue, what do you guys think, the female is still too stressed, I rather leave her alone for a while....

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MC gecko

New member
Is this a granite tokay ?

I just buy 4 tokay morph yesterday, and one of those is the interesting.

He has this pattern all over his body, is this a granite tokay ?
Because green yellow dot on his body, I asked a reflection on its morph.

Thanks
 

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billewicz

New member
For know, calling him a Granite works just fine. I have both gray Granite and blue Granite with, and without the yellow spotting and patches.

These have not been proven out to see what the yellow will do. My two Granite pairs from last year produced all visual offspring. We'll have to line breed them to see if we can get the visual traits to reappear.

Enjoy!
 

MC gecko

New member
I will reproduce him to my blue granite female and I'll see what it will give.

According to you, if I reproducing the male to a female blue granite, can I could reproduce visually granite tokay?

Thanks

Mathieu Bigras
 

Ophidiophile

New member
I'm thinking your big boy is piebald and should be stable given his age. Stable, meaning he probably is not going to change any more. Or, has advanced as far as he is going to go.

Hi guys. Long time.

Looked at the dialogue here and thought I'd chime in briefly. I guess I wanted to simply say that in my experience there is no such thing as "stable" in Tokays. I have now had Tokays that changed *radically* in appearance after 5 years in captivity. By the way, I also purchased a pure white peach-headed leucistic appearing Tokay that went backwards and progressively GAINED pigment while in my care. I agree that what are called leucistics are likely simply advanced or progressive calico/pieds, however they can then go the other way and revert to being calico/pied. Over the past 8 or so years I've come to believe that there is no point at which one can say a Tokay is stable and won't change any more.
 

MC gecko

New member
There the female I thought breed with this male?

What do you think of the results, tokay master: P
 

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billewicz

New member
You might be the first to get a compatible pair genetically. I suspect that they may all look normal, but that's why we breed. To see if we can prove something out.

If they are all normals, then you'll have to line breed the offspring back to one of the parents and/or to each other to get the genes to 'line up'.

It's were most of us are in the Tokay world. It's still too early to know, so have fun. Breed your pair and keep good records and let us know what you get.

All the best,

Michael
 

MC gecko

New member
Yes I will have lot of fun with my breeding project this year and I will share my results later. This year if all goes well I should have a little blue tokling and I hope so.

Thanks again Billewicz

Mathieu Bigras
 

Riverside Reptiles

Administrator (HMFIC)
Hi guys. Long time.

Looked at the dialogue here and thought I'd chime in briefly. I guess I wanted to simply say that in my experience there is no such thing as "stable" in Tokays. I have now had Tokays that changed *radically* in appearance after 5 years in captivity. By the way, I also purchased a pure white peach-headed leucistic appearing Tokay that went backwards and progressively GAINED pigment while in my care. I agree that what are called leucistics are likely simply advanced or progressive calico/pieds, however they can then go the other way and revert to being calico/pied. Over the past 8 or so years I've come to believe that there is no point at which one can say a Tokay is stable and won't change any more.


Hey bud, I was just thinking of you the other day. Good to see you chime in. You make a good point. I think that there may be *some* morphs that are stable. The powder blue, the blue headed green, etc seem to be fairly stable. I think that the unstable bunch comes from the genetics producing leusistics, calicos, pieds, granite, etc. I'm curious to see if breeding these to a patternless morph like powder blue might not help stabilize them somewhat? We're just turning that corner now in our various breeding efforts with Morgan having produced quite a few of the powder blue x leucy animals. So what comes out of pairing those together will make for some interesting results I'm sure.
 

billewicz

New member
I'm thinking your big boy is piebald and should be stable given his age. Stable, meaning he probably is not going to change any more. Or, has advanced as far as he is going to go. I'm not sure that meets "advanced" by definition however.

"Progressive piebald" starts with a normal looking hatchling and the white patches develop throughout the juveniles' growth and stops in adulthood.

:muhaha::evil:Nice bite there from him I assume!:fight:

OK, so here are a few photos of the F1 progressive pied male who's mother is my avatar.

He's 15 months old. He hatched out looking gray with clear looking patches on his belly. He soon turned into the mottled green with just a couple of orange specs and looked that way for the past year. His siblings all look normal.

Now you can see the 'progressive' white starting to develop adding more proof to my "Progressive piebald" theory.:banana:

_________________________________________

I added 3 more pics of a one eyed Tokay I call Capt. Calico Jack. When we got him he looked like a granite with a yellow stripe down his back.

He has since started to 'progress' into a pied, so hence the pirate name.:evil:
 

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Ophidiophile

New member
Hey bud, I was just thinking of you the other day. Good to see you chime in. You make a good point. I think that there may be *some* morphs that are stable. The powder blue, the blue headed green, etc seem to be fairly stable. I think that the unstable bunch comes from the genetics producing leusistics, calicos, pieds, granite, etc.

Totally agree Ethan. I think I overstated my point a bit. I was referring specifically to the unstable bunch of morphs you mentioned and not so much to the blue/green complex. :blushing:
 

billewicz

New member
So, here is my Pied Male. He has spent the summer with this progressive pied girl. All of their prodigy look normal at this point but I expect to see changes on some of these six months from now.

As a bonus, both of these have marbled eyes as well.
 

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billewicz

New member
This season the above Pied male will spend his time with this Pied female.
 

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Kita

New member
Holy cow. Those higher white two are SMOKING! Those are the kind of Pieds I like, clean and solid white without the off coloring at the edge of the normal coloration.
 
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