Interesting clinical case! Please read and let's help save this gecko!

[Saskia]

Hello to all!

I have a vet-student friend who usually treats reptiles because he knows sooo much about them, he likes geckos and pythons in particular...

Yesterday he called me and told me that someone left in the clinic where he works a female leopard gecko apparently impacted by EGGS, the downside is that the previous owners didn't give much detail, they said she was kept in paper towels, she ate crickets and mealworms, she never had calcium or vitamins, the previous owner's attitude was: "she is a wild animal, wild animals don't need vitamins!! because nobody gives them vitamins in the wild" not much more info there...

My friend suspects MBD, and egg impaction, he wants to proceed with surgery, but he was hoping that could be the last resource, the girl is NOT eating, she pooped a little mucuslike greenish thing this morning.

Here are some pics, PLEASE post any insights, experiences, advise, anything could help!! My friend is relying a lot in my opinion, and I trust in this forum we'll all be able to help!! The owner said to put her down... he wasn't interested in spending money on her, so my friend took her and he is trying to save her life.

Some pictures:

:feedback:

 

[Allee Toler]

Not much you can really do. Warm soaks, and pray for the best. There was a thread on this not to long ago where I gave a more detailed response. I'm going to look for it...

 

[Saskia]

Do you think this is actually egg impaction??? I mean, can egg impaction ocurr?? apparently according to the X Ray the eggs are too big... warm soaks for how long? how many times a day?

 

[Allee Toler]

I'm not a vet. But I'm really not a fan of vets, medication, or any of that stuff. I raise my animals on holistic food, organic food, and raw food (both my cat, the cats I foster, and the fish/reptiles get home raised organic feeders). There's natural anti-inflammatories in the World.

1. Get her on a low fat diet (cricket and roaches are low in fat high in protein). Fat isn't good with inflammation.
2. Omega 3 Fatty Acids (not the same fats as above to avoid) are an anti-inflammatory. A tiny tiny bit can go a long way. Just make sure to not over do it. With Harlow (the one last year who worried me) I opened a capsule, dipped my finger in it, and just tapped her nose lightly enough for one lick.
3. Water oddly enough helps inflammation, by keeping her hydrated it allows oxygen to circulate through her bloodstream, reducing swelling and relaxing muscles.
4. Warm water soaks will reduce swelling, and it'd very relaxing for some geckos who are in pain. 2-3x a day.


There's a lot more you can do with mammals as far as diet. Oatmeal, green tea, super fruit, etc. But because she's a reptile, it's a little harder. My main concern is the number of medical deaths in animals and humans compared to natural remedies. You know the top 3 killers in the U.S. is Heart Disease, Cancer, and Medical related deaths (unnecessary surgeries, unnecessary medications, too much medication, and just accidents).

If you want to give her the medication, when it comes down to it she's your gecko, your responsibility, your choice. I post my opinion and suggestions, I'm not telling you what to do. In the end it's your decision.

That's what I've previously posted.

Egg impaction is called Egg Binding/Egg Bound. If they've calcified and become toxic it's called Follicular Stasis (F/S usually involves multiple eggs being formed at once).

Oxytocin can cause contractions and has been used to treat egg binding. Surgery can also remove the eggs. I've never used oxytocin with one of my geckos so I really can't say much about it... just that I know it causes contractions to push out eggs.

There's really not many options. I don't have anything further to add on this topic. It's just one I don't know a whole lot about as far as medical procedures go... I had a gecko pass away from a surgery to remove the eggs last year, and I've had a few geckos develop many eggs at once, who've recovered with the things I did in the list above after a vet told me they would need surgery.

 

[Saskia]

I am going to tell him about oxytocin!! In the end if there is no improvement in 8 days from now he will operate.... but honestly he is not a vet yet (is in his 3rd or 4th year of vet school) he told me he has operated reptiles before, but never this.. I hope it can be solved before he attempts to operate, he told me if he does proceed he will take a video of it, it might be something interesting to watch though

 

[acpart]

I think it can be a really good resource to use a forum like this to brainstorm about treatment, though as far as I know there aren't any people who identify as vets on this forum. I do wonder, though, since he's in vet school if there are any exotic vets associated with the school that he could ask as well.

Aliza

 

[Saskia]

I agree, I haven't read anybody identifyting himself as a vet here... I am going to tell him about herp-vets in his school, although I must say in Venezuela nobody can major in reptiles (veterinarian students) the only 2 options here are cattle and small animals (mostly dogs and cats) that's why there are not many repti-vets here, the very few that do treat reptiles are just dog-cat vets that happen to like reptiles and often keem/breed reptiles themselves and therefor have gained experience... so perhaps in the vet school maybe there is not reptile-vet I am guessing my friend could make a great reptile veterinarian someday, he really knows lot about snakes, geckos and lizards in general and he is VERY young, he has a lot of time to learn more.... I'l keep GU posted

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Saskia ~

Do those x-rays confirm a diagnosis of MBD? If so, there is a liquid calcium supplement available in the USA (for your sister to pick up), called Calcium Glubionate which can be given to the leo right on her snout.

Does the x-ray show how calcified the eggs are?

Does she seem uncomfortable?

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

There are multiple users on this forum that are veterinarians that don't identify themselves as such because they don't want every person with a sick gecko emailing them with questions on a constant basis. In any case, oxytocin can work well for egg binding. Surgery should be a truly last ditch effort as there is a good chance that it will end in death for the gecko (and in inexperienced hands the chances of death are far greater). Waiting it out is usually the best option. I've had many instances where they've been egg bound for months and one day you wake up, and there's a pair of eggs. Low stress, a correct living environment, and a nice nest box are the best things you can provide. If she's feeding, keep letting her eat as she'll need her strength.

 

[Saskia]

The thing is that she has lost a lot of weight! She is not eating, he just started giving her hill's a/d food in her nose for her to lick.... in the pics you can see the thin tail.... I am also trying to get him to not do the surgery.... I don't keep too high hopes on that

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

The thing is that she has lost a lot of weight! She is not eating, he just started giving her hill's a/d food in her nose for her to lick.... in the pics you can see the thin tail.... I am also trying to get him to not do the surgery.... I don't keep too high hopes on that

That's not uncommon, but it doesn't mean that she will not lay the eggs on her own eventually. Again, she needs to be in a proper environment, with minimal stress, and a nice lay box. Without those things, she will certainly die. I've had females get to the point where you would think that they were going to die any second, and then sudden, out of nowhere, lay their eggs. The oxytocin is the best bet from a clinical standpoint. It's used to induce labor in all sorts of animals. As I said, surgery should be a very last ditch effort...especially considering the lack of surgical experience.

 

[Saskia]

Thanks for posting!! Has anyone used oxytocin in leopard geckos?? he told me it doesn't work so well in this particular species... I am guessing if the previous owner didn't care enough to provide calcium she was probably in an unadequated environment! I know she now has everything she needs, and a nice lay box, could it be possible that the eggs are too big? in the X Ray ythe look huge! a lot bigger than the cloacal area... is this a possibility, that she hasn't laid because they are too big? or this is not possible?

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Oxytocin may or may not work...but it's a safer bet than surgery. The eggs certainly may be too big for her to pass but only time will tell.

 

[Saskia]

This girl passed away this morning... iimmediately after that my friend opened and took the eggs and put them in an incubator, we couldn't save the mom, let's see if those eggs hatch....

 

[thehotchik1000]

Oh I'm sorry for your friends loss. I hope he can save the babies.

 

[Saskia]

I have the video of the surgery, the mom was still "warm" she had JUST died, there is a chance for them, actually my friend doesn't have an incibator so he called me and I went to the clinic and bring the eggs to my home, they are very big, and look actually good, I put them in vermiculite and into my incubator, let's see what happens!! he actually did a video on the post-mortem surgery, I am going to upload it in youtube and post the link, could be a reference in the future, actually my friend didn't perform the extraction, he left it to an experienced vet, let's hope for the best!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I have the video of the surgery, the mom was still "warm" she had JUST died, there is a chance for them, actually my friend doesn't have an incibator so he called me and I went to the clinic and bring the eggs to my home, they are very big, and look actually good, I put them in vermiculite and into my incubator, let's see what happens!! he actually did a video on the post-mortem surgery, I am going to upload it in youtube and post the link, could be a reference in the future, actually my friend didn't perform the extraction, he left it to an experienced vet, let's hope for the best!

Saskia ~

Sorry to hear of the passing of this female. Glad the vet was standing by from the looks of things! Best wishes for her eggs...two of them?

Look forward to seeing the video. It will be good to post it on this very thread ;-).

 

[Saskia]

Saskia ~

Sorry to hear of the passing of this female. Glad the vet was standing by from the looks of things! Best wishes for her eggs...two of them?

Look forward to seeing the video. It will be good to post it on this very thread ;-).

Yes, they are 2 HUGE eggs!! no wonder this girl couldn't lay them, thay are very big endeed, let's see how this turns out!! I'll take a picture of them next to one of my fertile eggs so you can see the size, will post it in a minute....

 

[Saskia]

The ones on the right are my eggs, about to hatch, fertile and looking good, the ones on the left are the dead gecko eggs! You can see the big size difference, and let's take to consideration that eggs look bigger when they are about to hatch (like mine).....

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The ones on the right are my eggs, about to hatch, fertile and looking good, the ones on the left are the dead gecko eggs! You can see the big size difference, and let's take to consideration that eggs look bigger when they are about to hatch (like mine).....

Wow, Saskia, those eggs ARE huge!!!